U25 – Debt Collection Review 0:01 Yeah. 0:04 Hi, everybody. This is John Jay. And today, I want to talk about something very basic. 0:08 It may not concern you, but this is more focused on how to deal with a lawsuit. And specifically, this is consumer debt. 0:17 And it’s just very small …

U25 – Debt Collection Review
Hi, everybody. This is John Jay. And today, I want to talk about something very basic.
It may not concern you, but this is more focused on how to deal with a lawsuit. And specifically, this is consumer debt.
And it’s just very small debt and resulting from a, a credit card like an unsecured credit card type debt.
So what I did, is, I found a case file on the internet, and I’m just looking at what’s transpired between the person who’s the defendant, or the debtor and the debt collector.
This is a third party debt collector, And I’m going to critique this.
I’m going to analyze this, and I’m going to explain some elements to this so that you can see for yourself, it’s this, this demonstration that I’m going to show you, can also be used for all kinds of risk. Now, when it comes to third party debt collectors in America, there are specific ways to manage it.
So let me just start with this: imagine if you had never seen fire before, and I, I showed you some fire, and then I let you burn your finger, and then you hated me, and ran away in terror.
And then anytime you saw the fire, you had runaway and terror because, no, because of your experience, right?
But if I introduced fire to you in a way that demonstrated how I could use it to cook food, and build something OK, or defend yourself or stay warm in the winter, you would want to know how to make it. You would want and don’t want to know how to use it, you would see it as a tool, or you would see it as a risk that you can manage, and this is the way I look at debt.
My purpose here is to show you that this is a risk that you can manage. It’s a financial risk that you can manage if you try to manage it by giving up and letting someone else tell you what to do such as an attorney.
Attorneys are not risk managers there, people that bill by the hour. That’s it. They usually don’t solve problems.
I mean a lot of times you think back in your life where if you’ve used an attorney, I’m not just disparaging attorneys, but I’ve heard so many stories that I’ve had personal experience where you just don’t have a good feeling after that experience. Even if you want a case or something, it’s just doesn’t feel right. You know, there’s something that didn’t, it didn’t work out good.
So, I would just, I’m wanting to show you this so that you can look at a risk and not runaway and terror, OK. There’s a way that there’s a way to deal with it.
So I’m going to share a screen, mostly, I might have to do this in a couple of parts.
So let me just share a screen here, and I’m going to show you the example here, the case file.
So you see my screen here, I should move my image out of there.
All right. So, it’s a double image on the screen.
OK, so, I have a few things I’m going to show you, but let’s look first at what we’re talking about.
So, I located this file, this is a debt collection floating around somewhere.
And you could see that the debt collectors called LLVM the funding LLC, that’s a debt collector. You know it’s a debt collector because that organization does not issue credit.
It doesn’t issue credit cards. It’s not a bank, it doesn’t do its own underwriting.
It’s simply collect, find receivables, and we can get into what that involves, but, Here’s what you want to look at.
Now, this case didn’t just appear, um, let’s scroll back, Let’s go back a little in time, OK, and we’re going to see how this began somewhat.
This is typical, C have.
The first thing I look for is this I know it’s a debt collection and whether or not I owed the original creditor money, I don’t care.
I just look at this as risk, just like if I look outside, Before, I’m gonna go somewhere, it’s gonna rain. I’m just gonna bring my umbrella.
So, I look at that. I look at this, this, this way. Now. If I borrowed money from a friend or a family member, I’m going to pay him back, but when it comes to banks, it’s a different animal. It’s a different story. So, here’s how I look at this step.
So, a person gets a debt collection, and look at who the debt collectors, Let’s just say, Scott and associates TC.
Now, this is a law firm.
A professional company, professional corp, OK, Scott and Associates, this is a debt collector.
It’s involved in the collection of a debt.
It is regulated and subject to the penalties under the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act, and if you’re in California, for example, it would be under the rosenthall Act.
You have parallel debt collection or consumer debt collection laws. You got the federal that’s enforceable in the state and the Fed. And you got the Rosenthal Act in California, for example, that’s enforceable in the state court and the federal courts.
So if if they owe a penalty under the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act in California, they also owe it under the rosenthall Act as an example. So check your state.
Most states have a similar state statute that, that, it’s almost the same thing as the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act, and you can find this under Title 15 of the United States Code Section 692.
Alright, in any case, here’s what I look for.
When I see a debt collection letter like this, I want to see who’s trying to collect.
So, first of all, Scott and Associates PC, that is a debt collector number-one, where is this organization operating, Alabama, California, DC, Maryland, et cetera, OK, just interesting to note that it’s notated as attorneys at law, there’s just, its address, the Texas addresses, probably its headquarters.
The debt or the dead, or the person who supposedly owed owes its money is this woman here, OK, in Texas.
So now, you have a debt collector that appears to be using a Texas address, who’s collecting from someone in Texas.
This tells me that it’s likely that the debt collector will sue very soon.
If this debt collection was showing an address of somewhere in Alabama, chances are that it wouldn’t be the law firm or individual attorneys who would sue the person, because, unless they’re practicing in both states, which is unlikely.
It’s not uncommon, but it’s unlikely all, right?
When it says down here, it’s identifying the type of case we’re talking about. So when they, when they send this letter to the debtor, they identify their file number, so they have an internal recordkeeping. I don’t ever use their file number. They can figure it out for themselves. They’re identifying themselves as a creditor, which is false because Scott and Associates, and LLVM the These are debt collectors, the third party debt collectors. There is no legal duty to pay them.
So unless you pay him so if you ever make a payment to any of these people, organizations, you, then create a new obligation, just say, no.
If you had an obligation with the bank, the original creditor, that’s fine, and that has to be proven.
But there is no duty for LV envy or scotton Associates, So they’re claiming to be the current creditor. And they’re saying that the original creditor synchrony bank, well.
If this were to exist, there would have to be a sale of the right to collect. Or the credit account would have to be sold or assigned to Elvia Envy.
And there has to be a contract illustrating the assignment that specific dead obligation and they never do that, they might come in there with a bill of sale, as you’ll see here, with a generic contract that says, we’re buying your entire portfolio, OK, but that doesn’t pertain to your individual case, or this person’s individual case.
Notice the date here. OK, it just so happens that was in January, but it’s important to note the date.
I’m saying this because when you get a debt collection letter like this, now this is a debt collection letter, because it’s from a debt collector.
If it’s from the creditor, it’s a demand for payment from the creditor.
But, if it’s being made by a law firm or its attorneys, each of the attorneys and the law firm itself are third party debt collectors.
Just important to note that in these letters, look down at the bottom, says, this is an attempt to collect a debt. any information obtained will be used for that purpose. If you don’t respond within 30 days, we’re going to assume that that’s valid.
This is really funny because, if you look in Title 15, Section 692, at State, Specifically, and there and I forget the paragraph, but it says in there that, failure to respond or dispute the debt within 30 days does not operate or does not admit the liability.
It’s not. It’s not an operation of admitting the liability, OK, you can look at it yourself.
So they’re saying the opposite of what the statute says. So even if you don’t respond to these guys within 30 days or don’t respond at all, it doesn’t mean you admit the debt.
Even though it indicates that here, it does indicate that the law firm, well, assume it’s valid, but they can’t actually act that way. The Court can’t see it that way, put it that way.
Now, Scott and Associates, like I said, it’s a professional corporation.
It is not legally permitted to represent a corporation. Let’s say, elvie envy.
In a court of law, it can write a letter like this and put this on it on the letterhead.
But Scott, an associates, is not permitted to represent a corporation as an attorney, because it’s not an attorney.
It’s not a bar member. It never passed the bar. It lacks the qualifications of an attorney.
It’s illegal for Scott and associates’ TC to represent a debt collector in court.
It can represent some party in a proceeding of some kind like a negotiation or something. Someone has to sign for it and all this stuff. But when it comes to court, there has to be an individual attorneys. So I’m always looking for the individual attorney. Do I see one here now? They’re pretty slick. I mean, these guys, don’t put their name on anything, Especially, these guys scotton associated been around for a long time. So, I’m gonna scroll down, also note the debt, $3400.
It’s good information to have.
You can see here that some software generated the person’s name.
It’s like a robot, Derek, Deborah. Right?
This law firm represents LLVM V, OK. That’s fine.
But you cannot represent LLVM V in court just so you guys know.
This may be important. in some cases. Just just keep that in mind.
So, I’m going to scroll down here. Now, notice how no one signed it. Why? Because … afraid, who would want to put their name on something like this. They’re sending this later through the US males.
This is you’ll see later this is fraudulent so who would want to put his name here. I mean, some do.
But they’re using the the US Postal Service to send a fraudulent bill.
There’s no debt here, OK, there might be a debt with the bank but certainly not with Elvia NB.
So I don’t see any attorneys name.
So what I could do is not that I need to but I’m just going to show you guys how to figure this out, don’t bother filing a complaint with the Better Business Bureau. That is a share a sham guess I can help you at all.
It may give you information, if you want to search on this company, through the Better Business Bureau listings on the Internet, or the rip off report, or something like that.
But I like to look for the commercial listing, for this corporation, this PC.
So I’m gonna go over here, and I had already, I’ve already done the search, I did a Google search, I use Duck Duck Go and I found lawyers dot find law dot com and I came up with this. So, if I see here, it looks like, it actually has headquarters in Texas that kinda matches the collection letter, right?
I think it does.
Close enough, all right.
So, they probably have several addresses in Texas.
In any case, who are, who are the principal parties in this law from now? I could call them up and ask, I mean, sometimes they’ll tell me sometimes they won’t.
I can also try to find the law firms website, and a lot of times, you’ll see the names of the general partners, the general partners, like in this case, there won’t be a general partner. It’ll be like a CEO or somebody.
And in the individual, usually is going to be an attorney. That is the party, the principal party of the company or the partnership, the general partner, or the CEO. That is the responsible party. So, if you get a debt collection letter, and you want to you want to put the liability on somebody and no attorneys identified himself.
By default, the CEO or general partner of the debt collector is the liable responsible party for any FTC’s violations or anything like that.
So, as it turns out, if you look down here, you’ll see it looks like Abraham Joseph Dimple is the CEO or Responsible party.
There’s another one here, Elizabeth Caitlin, I don’t know what their roles are. It doesn’t indicate their titles.
I mean, you could probably call them up and ask. Here’s the website, you see.
That’s all you need to know is who, who’s behind this, OK?
Because if you want to, you could take this into Fed Court and get some money out of it.
If you’re inclined, Sometimes it’s easy, sometimes it’s not, For 3000 bucks, the lower the debt, probably, the more likely it is.
You’ll get money out of these guys because it’s going to cost them a lot of money to try to fight you.
Alright, so, what they’re trying to do here is they’re trying to meet the state’s requirements for giving a privacy.
Notice there’s total BS, I mean, This is not Whatever. It doesn’t matter. Who cares? It doesn’t matter what they’re saying. So it looks like it gives you information here.
I mean, look, you’ve got all these companies that are operating under the umbrella of Resurgent Capital.
It’s just interesting to note.
You can read that yourself. I’m going to scroll down a little bit further. So this letter came in January. This, woman responded.
Notice how she did not put the date. I like to put the date on the letter.
And I’ll show an example of one in a second.
But she used proof of delivery to get the Postmark date. That’s another way to do it. That’s fine. I like to put it on the face of the letter or both, but she used, uh, you know, certified mail, OK?
She’s got a tracking number and everything, that’s fine.
First class mail is enough to respond to these things.
All right?
Now, what she did here is she, as quoting the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act and she’s telling him to cease and desist for the communications. I don’t like to do that, because their only option, then, is to sue you. I’d rather not be sued.
I can deal with it.
But if they’re not inclined to sue me, why would I? Why would I cut them off so they can’t sue me? So, they have to sue me.
What I would like to do instead of telling, telling them, don’t contact me, is, I would say, Please contact me by mail only.
Don’t call me.
So, you know, she’s, she’s giving her, you know, notice here, and all this stuff. I’m going to share mine with you, but this is what she did.
And then she says, have a nice day. side of that was putting. All right, so it come down here.
Here’s her mailing stuff, and so this is sufficient. I came in no matter how you write this letter. You can basically write this letter back and give a copy of their letter for reference and say, hey, I got your letter.
I’m disputing the debt you’re claiming. And I’m requesting validation within 30 days or five days or whatever the, whatever you wanna tell them, it doesn’t matter, that is enough.
Alright, well, they write back, they usually write back and they have a formula And so, that says, hey, yeah, we verified it.
That’s it, I mean, just saying, they verified it. They might give you some copies of documents, OK?
Now, the documents they give you, even if they give you a copy of a credit agreement, with the signature on there.
This is not evidence of an agreement, OK?
It’s just a document.
All right.
Someone has to be a witness to authenticate the document, but it’s enough to send it back in response to your request to validate.
Sending back something like a copy of a billing statement, or a few. Sometimes, essentially like 500 pages, Sometimes, they send you a credit agreement with no signature, no date on it, we can pick that apart.
But what’s really important is if whether or not they’re going to soon, if they do sue you, if they want to use that same document in the lawsuit, they also have to provide a witness to authenticate that document. But what they usually try to do is get you to authenticate it by default, because you don’t know how to defend yourself. That’s usually what happens.
And that’s why I like to strip your cash flow, and equity, so that if these guys win, which they usually win, and they shouldn’t win.
If it was, if you had a fair proceeding, they would win about one or 2% of the time, and people would win.
Most of the time, OK, that’s how it should be, but it’s the other way around. They win most of the time, even if you’re right.
So, um, they’re talking about synchrony Bank as if they’re the bank and if they’re claiming that you owe Elvia envy, synchrony bank is out of the picture.
Why are they referring back to it?
Well, if they’re going to do that they need to establish that synchrony.
bank assigned or sold the receivable, or the right to collect to …, who now has the right to collect against you.
And the only way that could happen, really, is if you agreed to that in the beginning, which you didn’t.
That’s never been in the credit agreement.
So, again, notice, there’s no, there’s no attorney who’s taking responsibility, but they still have their, this is an attempt to collect the data, OK? They think this is enough to comply with the FTC PA, which it is, but there’s still more obligations.
So, again, we go through here, and this turns into, let’s call it a lawsuit.
I mean, this is filed in Texas, and you can see the name of the court if it’s a small claims court justice court.
And here we go to the plaintiff, and we got the defendant, and then they call it a citation for that claim. In other words, it’s a complaint. It looks like a summons.
I don’t even see the complaint here.
All right, so let’s just say this is basically a summons OK.
Um, they got the address of the plaintiff but they’re using that, OK. So here’s the attorney of record.
This isn’t vitally important.
There has to be an attorney who executes or signs the complaint, otherwise it’s not a valid complaints. So you will always find an attorney. Now, sometimes. You have a list of attorneys. And somewhere there don’t indicate which attorneys responsible. Usually it’s one attorney, sometimes is 2 or 3.
But whoever’s saying that he or she is on the case, like, had signed for the complaint, that is known as the attorney of record. And anyone, any other attorney that comes in later, is not of record without proper notice to the court. And in some cases, they have to have to ask for permission from the court to enter an appearance, OK? So, just, just be aware of that.
So, we keep on scrolling down.
Apparently, this is such a small court, that the judge himself, issued this citation which is another word for summons, OK.
So, here’s your return of service.
This is where the process server will fill this out and file and say, Yeah, I served them on such and such a date, then the clock begins ticking. Right, so here’s the actual complaint.
So, a form that was provided by the court has been used here.
You can get all the information from the court from this original petition.
You got the case number the actual name of the plaintiff defendant everybodys address.
You know, they don’t put the whole account number, it’s not a big deal, even if the account numbers wrong, to make a big deal about that, in my experience, it doesn’t really matter. I’m gonna show you what does matter, though.
And so, here’s what they’re doing.
The plaintiff has a claim for a stated account, so this is what they do when they can’t have an agreement.
They can’t provide evidence of an accredited agreement.
So what they do is they say, it’s a stated account.
So the burden of proof is, oh, a lot lower, then.
Suing for breach of contract or money. Let, if I see for breach of contract, I have to show the contract. If I sue for money land, I have to show that I advanced funds, which these guys didn’t do.
So if I say account stated, all I have to show is, did I sent you a bill and you didn’t pay?
The fact that you disputed it overcomes.
It shifts the burden proof back on the plaintiff.
So when the plaintiff says account stated, then your defense is, Well, I objected when I got the bill in the mail. You still didn’t prove that I owe you anything, and this is not my account.
That’s your defense to account stated.
If you don’t understand that, what will happen is, you might go to the first hearing, and they can never win on this, by the way, but what happens is, you go in there and they start talking, just talking, and it’s kind of stressful. And let’s say you just absolutely refuse to pay. You’re gonna fight this to the end, right?
And so the judge says to you, Well, you had an account with synchrony, Bank, right?
You’re an honest person.
You go, Well, yeah, and and it’s over that, and you lost. You just lost the case because you’ve just admitted to a stated account.
So instead of the plaintiff meeting its burden of proof, you alleviated the plaintiff meeting its burden of proof by admitting a fact that the judge is now using to presume that you owe.
And everything that follows is just to show, you’re going to lose the case on what’s called summary judgement. It’ll never make it to trial, just because you were talking.
I’m gonna show you how to do this.
Open account is the other count.
So you have a two count complaint, because if one does not succeed, the other will open account.
Again, same burden of proof, as stated account, I’m not going to get into all the detail. I mean, if you look at my written printed material, I have a case on this, and you can look it up on the Internet, but the criteria for proving these two are almost nothing, OK.
And it’s going to give a little story.
The claim arises from a credit account with with synchrony Bank, thank you for saying that, because they’re gonna have to prove that now.
All right?
The account isn’t default, You gotta prove that.
Now, you gotta have a contract shows default.
Now, like I was just saying about a stated account, or account stated, in order for a state account to survive, um, there has to be an underlying debt, they have to come up with something that gave rise to a stated account.
A state account means, I sent him a bill, and he didn’t pay, OK? They’re saying, and the complaint here, which, really, this is the complaint, this little box here.
This came from a credit account, or the debt collector.
The original was the credit account, which is now in default, so, they’re going to have to show a contract where the terms establish when default occurred.
This is going to be in your advantage, OK? That’s why I’m saying. If you had a fair proceeding, they’re never gonna win here.
So they wanna go and they get their money and default damage and stuff like that, OK?
So they’re saying that synchrony bank assign the key assign this debt collection of two.
Somebody didn’t even indicate where in May, OK?
About, What, seven months before the case started.
That was this The synchrony Bank assign the account to Scott and Associates. I think it did. In fact, I think Scott and Associates owns air-b.n.b..
And I think Elvia Envy has no interest in the collection.
In fact, I think the law firm itself either assuming there was a valid account, acquired the receivable in its own name and is suing in the name of a debt collector to give legitimacy to make it look legitimate.
Because it cannot sue in its own name because then the attorneys for the plaintiff would have an interest in the case, and they’re not allowed to do that.
So what I’ve found over the years is if I challenge the attorneys as having an interest in the case and the plaintiff not having the interest alleged, they ignore it.
But if instead, I sue the law firm, and the individual attorneys, and the debt collector, Each has defendants’ like 4 or 5 defendants in US district Court federal court.
They will come to the table quickly and offer to pay me a thousand dollars and withdraw the state case.
Because they know that discovery and Fed Court is going to reveal the fact that their … claim is fraudulent that the LV envy has no interest in the case, or it can’t prove that, it has an interest in the case.
Now, I’m telling you the technical aspects of this proceeding.
This is not how you manage risk, but I want you to break this down and look at it in a logical way.
So, you can see where all the weaknesses are, and you can choose how to do this.
So, I’m gonna keep on scrolling.
Let’s see. Yeah, so, luckily they filed somewhere in April, right? The case got filed. Now, here’s their evidence, notice how there’s no credit agreement.
I mean, if I look through, there’s no credit agreement.
What was assigned?
It doesn’t say what was assigned. So, let’s say, OK, here we got a Bill of sale, now you should have a bill of sale. A creditor can sell the receivable. So, synchrony Bank can sell to Elvia envy. No problem. Let’s look at this.
It says Sherman SCA SPLC C and PSC Seat CAD Bulk dash May 2020.
There’s a bill of sale for value received.
Let’s see.
The, let’s say it’s called Forward Flow Accounts purchase agreement.
What is that?
What are all these parties, Sherman, or these company names, forward flow accounts receivable, agreement, purchase agreement, Sherman, PLCs, what does all that? Where’s LV envy in this mix?
The agreement would agreement I don’t see it here anywhere. Whereas this Forward flow accounts purchase agreement.
That doesn’t sound like a consumer credit agreement with synchrony Bank.
That agreement has to be assigned to the plainer.
It’s dated the 20th day of May, where between synchrony, bank used to be known as GE capital, used to be known as RFS holding fine.
Synchrony, bank funding, synchrony, card funding, LLC.
Fine. It has all these other names, that’s fine.
And Retail Finance, Credit Services, LLC, so it had all these other names and then the assignee, OK.
That let’s say synchrony Bank with all these DBAs, is going to assign the credit receivable to Sherman, originator, three, LLC, the buyer yet we have yet a new third party. It has never been named before.
You see how wonky this is?
These guys don’t have any standing at all.
So let’s say synchrony bank assigned a contractor. Sherman Sherman’s not suing anyone. Where, Sherman, I don’t know where’s the contract. They called it Forward Flow Accounts, purchase Agreement. Where’s that? Not here. Where’s the Consumer Credit Agreement between synchrony, Bank and Elvia Z B. I don’t see it.
Hereby assigns Transfer cells, conveys grants whatever’s to the buyer as successors and assigns without recourse except this for set forth in the agreement.
As described it in the agreement, or the agreement is not here, but let’s see. Who’s executing this so-called agreement, this bill of Sale. Look who’s executing it.
You’ve got Lynn Fisher, who’s the Senior Vice President Recovery Operations for synchrony Bank, OK? And look at the date, May 29th, 2020.
I’m the same date.
The same individual, Lynn Fisher, is the duly authorized signatory, for yet a whole new company, RFS holding LLC.
Does that person Lynn Fisher have to salaries to job titles to careers?
Let’s go on.
Now, we have yet another party who’s involved here. It’s a party, isn’t it?
Synchrony, card funding, LLC.
Again, here’s Lynn Fisher oh, also the duly authorized signatory yet on the same day is this three job titles for three different companies.
This person has three careers.
Now, let’s scroll down further, and we got yet another party, Retail Finance Credit Services, Lynn Fisher, on the same day May 29, 2020, vice president, for job titles for four different organizations on the same day, executing a bill a sale.
Between this hodgepodge of list of companies, and who knows what.
This is fod.
This if you if you did a transaction that looks like this, regarding a something that would be subject to disclosure and taxation with the IRS, they would accuse you of fraud, OK?
Depending on how you came out of it, right?
If, if normally you would have to pay a lot of taxes and you didn’t, virus would audit you and say That’s fraud, because you made it complicated.
This is not even This is beyond complicated. This is just doesn’t even tell a story. It doesn’t make any sense. Here, We have a transfer an assignment. Apparently, this is another agreement. And yet May, 29th, 2020, we got some more people involved here.
Transfer an assignment, Sherman original, three LLC, without recourse, is gonna do what assign to, let’s see, who else receivables.
Oh, look at this, dated the day before May 28th, delivered by the bank, purchased by this company.
And he’s gonna assign it, …, LLC is going to assign it to yet another company. Here we go, LV NV.
So, we have all these intermediaries, one person signing for all of them Eventually, LVAD gets the account.
What does Elvia envy getting?
It’s getting a spreadsheet.
I’m gonna show you it is not getting a receivable.
It’s getting a phone number, It’s getting an address and a name that’s it All right?
So Now we have Sherman originator the third or Number three LLC a Delaware company.
I’m going to scroll back just a second here Sherman let’s see, Sherman, originator, III. where is that?
I don’t see it here.
So how did Scherman originator get to assign it two LV and V how did Sherman originator get it? Is it up here Yeah, OK, Sherman, originator, three LLC?
Got the account from these other conglomerate of whatever.
All these signatures, I don’t know even involve, uh, Sherman originated three. You’d have to write a flowchart to figure this out.
But, anyways, you can see what I’m talking about. It’s so convoluted. It’s just fraud.
So its claims here, Elvia Envy Funding has some sort of receivable, has the rights to collect on this particular credit agreement.
And it’s signed by a representative from Sherman Engineered three LLC.
John mussel, mud maza. Maazel masala.
whatever the Director of Sherman original three LLC.
Now why didn’t why didn’t this John mazhar whatever sign for scherman over here?
Where’s the signature here?
And then he’s, someone else is going to sign.
As an authorized representative, Jackson Walker is also going to sign for Chairman. Or, what in what capacity? What is it, a witness.
Then Daniel Pichardo is an authorized representative yet. All this happened on the same day with all these people saying this stuff. Now, they didn’t.
Now, someone else wrote all this up, and maybe these people signed or not, I don’t know.
Maybe they put a stamp on there.
you say I’m talking about now, anywhere in here, do you see where any specific credit agreement that’s identified?
Do you see any credit agreement identified in this bill, a sale?
This big salt.
No credit agreement is identified here, this being sold.
Same thing here. No transfer assignment of any credit agreement. I will see it here.
It could be anything for all we know they could be selling a yacht here, we don’t know. They could be selling the title to a yacht, OK?
So here’s what they’re calling Exhibit A Receivables file. Now this is, this is cryptic.
What does this mean? I don’t know, switch a letters and stuff probably a filename.
Who cares portfolio number? What does that mean? I don’t know.
What does transfer it mean, I don’t know, it’s lingo from inside the company.
Whoa, I gotta turn my head sideways here.
So there’s a bunch of redacted information here, a bunch of useless nothingness of nothing.
And there’s the defendant’s name.
What what? What does that?
You sell ludicrous this’s? So anyways, here’s the finance name address, all this stuff, right?
That’s it.
There is nothing here that establishes a credit agreement terms.
Terms of default identifies any risk or loan that was ever made.
The date of an agreement, a credit agreement, there’s nothing here, but that’s the complaint.
So what the heck are we going to do?
Well, I’m gonna, I’m gonna take us back just a little bit, and I’m gonna replace this person’s response to the original debt collection. Notice like that she got over here. So you got, you got this notice, and then she sent, this letter back, I’m gonna replace that with this letter here.
Let’s switch over here, This is what I would suggest. now there’s an explanation here.
Thus, this letter is my general way of responding to a debt collector, it’s for debt collectors, not creditors, and I have instruction here.
You can see it, can pause the video and see it.
I’m gonna go down here, I skip a page.
Here’s how I started out.
Now, not only am I going to request a validation and dispute it, I’m going to accuse them of identity theft.
The reason why I’m going to do that is because not only can they establish that I had a debt with any of those individuals, even the bank.
In order for them to even claim that I even exist and spell my name, or I didn’t have my name associated with the correct address that I received in the mail.
They would have to have stolen my identifying information without my permission, stolen means they acquired it without my permission, and that’s very easily done.
I mean, you could pick anybody, pick your neighbor, and go on the Internet, and go to Intel is, or, when you call it, my life dot com, and you can Google basically Google somebody’s name, or we call it white pages dot com. And you can collect all kinds of data. And sometimes, you have to pay a few dollars to get it.
And you can build a profile on somebody. And then you can put that information, name, address, whatever.
And put that into these sets of documents and print them with software, and create a whole lawsuit on somebody.
So if that’s the case, why don’t I accuse them of identity theft Because they won’t be able to defend themselves because it does look like it like identity theft, Totally.
So let’s just say, I’m gonna, I’m gonna just tell him that the account identified in the notice is not my account.
I’m not going to give them anything. I’m gonna make them meet the burden of proof. You are coming. They’re saying it’s my account. OK, prove it, I’m not gonna admit to that.
I’ve never received any credit services. Of course, Elvia … does not provide credit services.
Therefore, that’s how I know, I never, I never went to air-b.n.b.. I never haven’t had an agreement with air-b.n.b..
They can claim to have been assigned a credit agreement from a bank that they claim I had an account with, but I’m gonna tell you right now, I never had that account.
That doesn’t mean I’m lying. That means you have to prove that I did, and I’m not going to help you. I’m not required to help you.
So, you got this information without my permission. So, here’s what I’m going to do. I’m going to dispute what you’re claiming.
And I’m going to demand a validation and I’m not refusing to pay because I pay all my debts, my parents told me to do that.
And I always do that, I’d like to keep my word, OK, Any information you have about me is incorrect, and I’m not going to pay you unless you can prove that I owe you.
Provide me a copy of the credit agreement, the underlying debt, You gotta do that in every case, if it’s a debt collector, and you can also do this with creditors.
So with creditors you need to modify this letter just a little bit.
And creditors are not subject to the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act.
Their attorneys are the law firm connected to It is.
So just remember that.
Look up here, this is for the person’s name, now, if they spell your name incorrectly, leave it like it has never correct them on the spelling of your name.
Over here the debt collector is going to be …, it cannot be synchrony bank. If if the debt collector, if you get a letter from citibank’s attorney, You can’t really send this as a debt collection response, you have to kind of modify this letter.
So, But the attorney is fair game, and every attorney, if there’s like three attorneys involved, they’re fair game. OK, they’re subject to penalties under the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act.
Law firms, also, the law firm has a debt collector, each attorneys a debt collector, the debt collector is a debt collector.
The creditor is not a debt collector.
You can still ask for a copy of the contract, though.
But, when it comes to debt collectors, it’s more difficult, because, not only do they have to have the credit agreement, they have to show how that specific credit agreement was acquired by the debt collector.
They can’t, I’ve never in 30 years seen this, So ask them for it.
And I want a copy of the assignment, right?
Giving you the right to contact me, first of all. How did you even get the right to call me or contact me? Who do you think you are?
Then use my identifying information. Hey, by the way, how are you using my identifying information, my name, my address, my thought, what other information do you have? Do you have my financial information? My source code number, I didn’t give that to you.
What contract authorize this? When did I give you a permissible purpose to report on my credit, or even contact me?
Um, and by the way, what is your data retention policy now that you have my data?
What is your liability to me if you suffer a data breach? It’s not my fault.
What kind of security measures do you have in place? It’s a big problem, isn’t it? You know, just a brief side story here, just to give you an idea of how this works.
I went to I have a carpenter I’ve had for like 10, 10 or 12 years and um, he recently switched offices. Now, chiropractors have medical data, right. And they have legal duties under the data retention policies and privacy, restrictions and all this stuff, the HIPAA laws and all this. All right.
So, my, my chiropractor has all my medical data and he merged with another law. Not ops, but a chiropractic office, so.
He now becomes a employee of other chiropractor’s, so now there’s a corporation in which chiropractors are employed, including my chiropractor, who wasn’t an employee before. And now he’s their employee. But we still have a professional patient, doctor relationship.
So when I came in there for the first visit at the new office, the people at the, you know, the reception desk asked me to fill out a new HIPAA disclosure, which the first time I never, I never thought of the HIPAA disclosure because I’m not waving anything.
They already have a legal duty.
I don’t have to sign an agreement, giving them a legal duty, They already have a legal duty with respect to my medical records.
So, I told the chiropractor or the receptionist that I didn’t want to disclose or create a new association or doctor patient disclosure obligation with the new chiropractic office. But here’s what I explained.
My chiropractor is not a corporation of Chiropractor’s, my chiropractor is a professional, chiropractor individually, and he and I have a relationship.
I do not have a relationship, nor am I required to have a relationship with a corporation. And corporations cannot practice medicine, or engage in this type of professional relationship. It’s a money manager, not a professional, and I’m not required to disclose it.
And she was the woman was kind of hesitant, and she was starting to get insistent until I said, do you really want to incur the responsibility of maintaining my medical records when my chiropractor’s already taken on that responsibility? Why do you want to take it on?
And she said, You know, we really don’t need to do that, it’s OK.
So, it’s really important, yore, personal data, and I will tell you what that is.
It’s your name, the name associated with your address, whether it’s your mailing address, PO Box, or home address, your tax information, your SSN, your date of birth, all this stuff, your driver’s license information, photocopies, biometric data, all this stuff is important information. You see how it’s really important, and they see when you, when you start talking this language a little bit It really dawns on them. So what I wanna do is take that liability, and I’m gonna put it right on the head of the idiot, who sent me a debt collection letter, like this, and that’s why I write this letter. It’s a request for validation, but it’s got more stuff in there.
I’m gonna, I’m going to license to them.
I’m going to impose restrictions on the use of my data.
My identifying information includes, I’m telling them my tax records, voice recording, everything, like when I call you, if I call you, and you record my voice, then that’s a license agreement for which you owe me.
And I didn’t tell you how much you owe me yet, I’m just saying, I own the rights to all that data, OK, all my data.
And if you continue using it, you agree to these terms.
And please be advised, you’re liable.
And then I sign it.
That’s the kind of letter I like to send back.
All right.
So, let me just get through here.
So, it, it turns out we’re in court.
I could probably make some more parts are this, this is the very beginning part. So, let’s say, Now, we’re at this at the stage where it’s in court and we have like, it says here in the summons in the citation. It says, We have 14 days.
I think, it looks like, she was servers, I don’t know when she was server, but, it was issued on the 19th but maybe she was served like on the 25th. Sometimes it takes a month to serve the process meaning the summons to be delivered, right?
So I don’t know, this is a pretty new case.
So, we’re going to look at this complaint now.
This is really, I mean, this is a complaint, normally a lawsuit. It’s going to have like, page, after page after page, and all the lines are numbered, and this is what you get in a small claims case, You get like these little boxes with little notations in there, OK. And that’s what constitutes a lawsuit these days, So fine. Fine.
So that’s I’m saying look how small the burden of proof is alright, fine. So let’s let’s respond I’m gonna show you how we do this. So switch over here.
This is something I obviously prepared before this, because it takes a little while to do this So this is a very generic response, But it makes some very subtle and important arguments.
When I respond to a debt collection lawsuit with a debt collector, I usually don’t answer it. I usually ask for dismissal and the reason why I do it is a dismissal admits all the allegations that are properly pled in the complaint.
But, then, it says: Yeah, that’s all true, but I don’t owe you any money, you don’t have the right to sue me. That’s what a motion to dismiss is all about, and so, you have to tell the court why?
And, so, I’m saying, Look, if I admit everything in the complaint, let’s just say I admit all the allegations, assuming all the allegations are true, the exhibits, OK, now I sit here, the exhibits attached to the complaint are exhibits on which the complaint is based that these exhibits conflict with the pleading.
Now, I’ve had, I’ve seen cases where the exhibits include, what looks to be a signed copy of the credit agreement, which is not self authenticating by the way, they can’t use it as evidence itself. They have to still bring in a witness, and your signature can never really be authenticated except by anyone except yourself or a handwriting expert, which they’ll never bring in. So, it’s really kind of a meaningless piece of paper.
They need your help to establish the contract.
So what I say is, hey, they did bring in exhibits, but the exhibits tell a different story, They conflict with the pleating, here’s why, specifically, the defendant, or any of her credit accounts are identified, none of the herk, none of her credit accounts, nor is the defendant identified in any of these exhibits.
Think about this for a second.
The exhibits are supposed to support the complaint, right, where in here does it mention the defendant by name, address nothing?
Where is, are there any credit terms? Where is there an assignment?
If anything is not here, OK, so we do have a page that has the defendant’s name, but again, it’s what is it? It’s nothing. It’s not even titled, it’s just, it looks like garbage, OK? There’s nothing here.
All right.
Let me just do one thing here real quick.
All right. I’m going to come out of here for just a second.
OK, so, sorry about that. All right.
So, let’s go back to the motion to dismiss.
Nowhere in there does any exhibit support, what’s alleging the complaint.
Me, Go back to the, Sorry about that.
Look in the Uh.
Look what’s in the complaint.
All this here.
Had an account with Synchrony Bank. What’s the account number? Let’s just say That’s the account number. That’s not even identified anywhere.
Where did synchrony bank assign the debt to air-b.n.b. and what debt was assigned? There’s no contract. There are no credit terms identified anywhere.
Look, where are the credit terms?
Who are these guys? I don’t know.
You get the idea. So, we come back to.
Let me make sure I put this in the I’m going to do that. I’m going to change the share screen here for a second. Make sure I get all this in there.
Share screen.
OK, sorry about that delay in there.
All right, cool.
So you see how I see the reason for this? I’m not just some mad person making stuff up. So here’s my legal memorandum, which is really not.
I mean, I didn’t cite anything some states of it’s easy to find a legal citation that says that the exhibits, if the exhibit’s conflict with the pleating, then the court lacks jurisdiction or doesn’t have the authority to hear the case because there’s conflicting allegations. An exhibit is an allegation in exhibit is part of the complaint, OK.
So if the exhibit is a copy of a, something like here and the complaint alleges a credit agreement and says, as demonstrated by the exhibits, and then you go to the exhibits and there’s no credit agreement why.
You see the exhibit’s conflict with the complaint, right, or exhibits conflict with the allegations in the complaint.
So the care, furthermore, none of the exhibits represent instruments that have ever been executed by the defendant, nor even contemplated by the defendant, which is a requirement.
See, they have to say or be able to allege that they sent you the credit agreement and the demand for payment. They can’t even exhibit the credit agreement.
So you want to say that you’ve never heard about this case until you were sued.
I don’t care if they sent your stuff last week.
You still want to say, I didn’t get that. I don’t know what that is.
Make, improve it, keep the burden of proof where it began with the plaintiff.
All right, now that’s why I say here none of these exhibits have been served upon the defendant now. In this case it probably wasn’t.
And the defendant or the plaintiff, let’s say, the plaintiff has failed to notice the defendant.
Yeah, so anyways, so the legal memorandum can cite rules of civil procedure. I can cite case law, you can get some complicated things.
I just wanna give you guys a general idea of what you’re legal argument can be, OK, this is your factual argument.
Your legal argument says the rules require, or the pleating requirements are, and you might have some case law that says what the pleating requirements are, and the case law will cite the rule. So, it’s going to be something like that.
Don’t stress over it, you don’t need that.
I mean, it’s kinda nice to have it, but you can use something here, and you can make a legal argument by asking a question or making an analogy. That’s a really good way to make a legal argument.
Like, for example, instead of all this stuff here, or instead of citing some cases or rules, I could say something like, if the plaintiff is permitted to advance this case, then why couldn’t I replace my name with anybody’s name? I wanted to do the same thing, these attorneys are doing?
What would prevent me from doing that?
I could do that see, and that’s, that’s a legal argument.
So the complaint fails to include the exhibits that have been alleged.
And so I’m verifying that I’m saying everything as best as I can I’m not trying to just cost you guys money, and I’m asking for dismissal.
So, we come down here, and I’d like to give the judge an order to sign. This is what I would do.
And this judge has to copy everybody. So, I put everybody’s name and address here. Again, this is the attorney of record.
And we also have to put a certificate of Service, we have to certify that the manner in which it was mailed back, we have to send this back. once it’s signed. Now, we have to sign this.
We have to put the date.
Anne leave this all blank, of course, for the judge.
And we have to put the date that this is mailed. It should be within three days of the actual postmark date.
So for example, if I date this for the Friday and then I don’t drop it in the mail until Monday, it’s OK.
If it’s a week later, I probably have false certification, Don’t do that.
Make sure that you put the attorney of records and name and his address that he wants, he’s entitled to have whatever address he wants.
And then down here where it says buy, you have to put your initials.
Now, you can have your Uncle Bob do this. It doesn’t have to be the defendant, anybody can do this, OK?
But it has to be real person, and then just initial here.
So, send this to the attorney of record and send a copy or the original, doesn’t matter to the clerk of the court at this address or the address indicated on the complainer summits.
And you can sometimes, in some cases, I sent to the judge. Now, if it looks like the clerk is doing some funny business, then maybe delaying your filing of this response. So it makes it look like you default or something like that.
You may want to send it with proof of delivery, or some other way to show, All right. So, this is how we deal with the court.
I Wanted to wanted to analyze this on the Technical legal side So that you can see how weak this step is, how what a fraud this whole system is?
What I prefer to do is look at the person who’s the debtor, OK?
The like in this case, the defendant, I look at that person’s ability to spend money and sell property.
So what does that person have wages and what state is that person in this person’s state? This person happens to be in Texas.
So Texas I know prevents wages from Ben garnished. So if you have W two wages that’s not a risk. You cannot have a wage garnishment in Texas for this type of debt. You can for alimony and taxes and things like that but not for an unsecured debt collection. Credit agreement, unsecured debt, OK?
The other risks that she would have would be her ability to spend money from a bank account, so a personal bank account, or if she has 100% interest in a corporate business, sole proprietorship type account, or even an S corp, then that those funds would be subject to levy if the plaintiff prevailed here.
So, I always act as if the plaintiff already one, even though I’m not going to just give them the case, I’m gonna go ahead and fight it. If the judge denies my motion, I’m going to file an answer. And I’m going to deny everything in the complaint. And then I’m gonna take my legal memorandum, my argument here, that I made in the motion to dismiss. And I’m gonna bring that in as an affirmative defense, and the answer. And I’m not going to talk about that right now. But I’m just saying, this defense doesn’t go away. This argument doesn’t go away.
I’m going to make a list, in addition to the technical aspects of responding, forcing the burden of proof to stay where it began. I’m going to make sure that if they, if they did when they wouldn’t be able to levy my bank accounts, my wages.
Or encumber, any interest I would have in real estate. So if my name is on the house, on the title to the house that I own that I live in or a real estate investment or something. If my name is on the title as it appears on public records, I’m probably gonna want to take my name off.
Or, I’m going to encumber the equity, which is in other videos.
You can do it up until the day a judgement lena’s recorded against your name.
You want to do it as early as possible, preferably before you’re sued because technically the moment you get a demand for money that you owe, if you start conveying property technically it’s a fraudulent conveyance.
That’s not a crime, it’s just a civil matter, and really it’s not let’s call it actionable, because if it’s truly a fraudulent conveyance, the conveyance does not defeat the claim.
So like for example, let’s say I owed money to the IRS, and the IRS put a lien on me.
And I went sold my house, and the buyer knew by the Lean, and everybody was fine with it, and he bought the House.
The Iris cannot then come in there and say that was a fraudulent conveyance because the lien still attaches to the title of the property, no matter who holds the title.
It’s just that the buyer didn’t mind and now the buyer actually owes the IRS. Nobody’s going to do that, I’m just saying.
I mean, I would do it because I don’t have anything that’s collectible, but I’m just saying the fraudulent conveyance.
If you ever get to that point, it’s almost self defeating because if you qualify for what is considered a fraudulent conveyance, chances are: your Lean interests are not defeated by the conveyance. And you can still collect, it might take you a little bit more money and time, but you can still collect.
So, that’s why, you know, in 30 years, I’ve never seen anyone try to use fraudulent conveyance to try to prevent anything from happening.
But just the same, You want to transfer your interest in real estate, as far in advance as possible. Either transfer the equity or the title, OK.
And the way I always explain it is: If you have a shared interest in something, where are the owners of that interest yourself? Your Uncle Bob or two business partners or whatever?
Have the equal, undivided interest.
And there’s no distribution scheduled, then a creditor to one of the interested parties, like a debtor, for example, cannot attach to the property rights that are owned by the group?
So if I get rid of my property rights and I put it into a group and I can still benefit from the property, a creditor cannot reach into the group and take the property rights. They can’t take the cash, put a lien on the equity and so forth. So, here’s how it looks in reality.
Let’s say I have a bank account, let’s say I have a, an LLC.
I’m running a business, OK, and I’m a 100% owner, and let’s say it’s an S corp and I owe a personal debt from a long time ago and the creditor gets a judgement against me.
It goes to attach my bank account and then let’s say swipes my personal account. and then he also swipes my business account.
Now, I thought I was protected.
That’s why I had a corporation, but in fact, because I had 100% interest in the company, and it was published in my articles, my names showed me as a single member, manager or owner of the company.
Well, I was fair game. All that money in the companies now.
going to pay my personal debt. Why? Because I had the exclusive rights over all that money. There was no other innocent party there. So how do I fix that? How do I prevent that? I simply amend the articles with the Secretary of State and I add an innocent party. It has to be another party besides espouse. It has to be like my Uncle Bob, Or maybe I have to change the ownership altogether. Maybe I make the ownership now a trust.
I like using another person, my brother, Uncle Bob, You know somebody who, I can call up and ask to use his name, I don’t want to do it without telling them.
It does not create a liability for the other person to be listed as an owner in an LLC, except to the extent he gets money out of it. It doesn’t give him any rights to the LLC, so there’s still that protection there.
But now, if you add an innocent party to the ownership, it then freezes up that asset or cash flows so that a creditor to one of the parties like me.
For example, if I’m, if I’m the debtor, and I had my uncle Bob, and there who has no debts with me, well, then, all that money and property in the LLC is protected, except to the extent that some of it’s sent to me personally.
then that is subject to levy.
I hope that’s not too confusing.
So that’s the way I like to look at it.
So in addition to all this technical stuff, get out a blank sheet of paper and make a list. What do I have?
The right, to spend the exclusive right?
And what do I have a right to sell?
like a boat seeing in my backyard or that second motorcycle or a second car or my car or whatever, OK, vehicles are not a risk or a very teeny, tiny risk. In fact, they’re actually not a risk.
Very seldom will a creditor want to take a vehicle especially today because of the vehicle market. It’s horrible to try to resell a used car, vehicle, boat, vessel, or whatever, but even if that were the case all you’d have to do is go to the DMV or mail in a lien on the certificate of title.
If you had a clear title, you just mail in a lien and record a lien through the DMV.
And on the title and then basically the creditor would have to pay you first, basically, buy your vehicle or vessel.
So, they’re not going to do that.
You can even do this to the IRS is very simple, so vehicles are not really a risk. I wouldn’t even take those out of my name.
So, anyways, this is This is about all I wanted to cover here.
I’m not going to get into the answer in all this stuff.
You’ll see this in other videos, but there are a couple of videos in the collection regarding how to encumber real estate using a quick claim deed or how to convey the interest and also how to encumber it with debt. OK, and I call it friendly debt.
I hope this is useful.
And thanks for watching.


1. The speaker, John Jay, discusses how to deal with lawsuits related to consumer debt, using a case study involving a debt collector and a debtor.
2. He mentions how specific ways exist to manage third-party debt collectors in America and compares understanding and handling debt to learning to control fire.
3. John Jay reviews a case file, critiquing and analyzing it to explain key elements and discusses the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act, a federal law that protects consumers from abusive, unfair, or deceptive practices by debt collectors.
4. He further discusses the nature of debt collection and the sale or assignment of the right to collect a debt, emphasizing that the specific debt obligation should be clearly delineated.
5. He also talks about the importance of identifying individual attorneys involved in debt collection cases, especially since they often avoid directly associating their names with cases.
6. John Jay discusses an example where a debtor asked a debt collector to cease communications. He mentions that he does not recommend this tactic, as it may lead to a lawsuit. He also discusses how debt collectors often win cases, even if the debtor is in the right.
7. The speaker analyses an example of a complaint, pointing out that it makes presumptions about debt without presenting clear proof.
8. He scrutinizes various assignments and transfers involved in the case, noting the complexity and ambiguity surrounding these processes.
9. John Jay advises modifying a debt validation letter slightly to ensure its effectiveness, emphasizing the importance of maintaining the exact spelling of your name as the debt collector has used.
10. He concludes by explaining the process of filing a motion to dismiss, stating the importance of questioning the validity of exhibits attached to a complaint, and encouraging a proactive approach to dealing with debt collection cases.

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