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OK, thanks for joining today, I'm going to talk about the 10 40 in this year's instructions on how to disclose your interests in virtual currency.
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Some of you have asked me this, and so I'm gonna give you my answer right now, I'm just gonna say, I'm gonna give the answer, and I'm going to explain myself.
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So, what you're looking at here is just from, you know, a private company that's talking about the process here.
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And I was discussing this with someone recently.
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So anyways, I'm gonna scroll down and, um, and let's just forget about 2019, 2020, we're going to talk about 2021.
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In 20 21, that's last year, if you haven't filed yet, There's this little line here about disclosing your interest in virtual currency, so here's my answer.
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What do I say yes or no?
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I would say, no.
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Unless, you got a 1099, personally related to virtual currency.
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That's it.
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Now, let me explain myself. So I come back up here.
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I liked the commentary in the site, so, I'm gonna use this as a guide, because that was really good.
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So the IRS changed its wording a little bit.
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So basically, what the IRS really needs to know wants to know has a right to know is when you disposed of Cryptocurrency for dollars.
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It's still.
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It's the same old thing There's nothing new that is they trying to get as many people as they can to say that they have an interest in Kryptos And It really comes down to whether or not you have disposed of any financial interest in kryptos, OK?
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Have you received a financial interest?
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Did you acquire financial interests? What's the financial interest?
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I don't know, maybe it's just dollars I don't know It's maybe it's an interest in something you can sell. I don't know.
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But the bottom line is, I think you're really safe ground here is on the 10, 40, if you just answer no, unless you received 1099, Remember, it's not a financial question, you're not, you're not saying how much, how many dollars you receive because remember, dollars are taxable, not coins.
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Worst-case scenario, let's say I'm wrong.
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So the IRS has no information on which to proceed.
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It didn't get a 1099, right, Because if you get a 1099, you know, the IRS Gotland.
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The only way it would discover that you should have answered yes, is if it did an audit, and not for that reason, It would have to do a routine audit of some for something, and have to have discovered it in the records you disclose.
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That's unlikely.
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And even if that were the case in the IRS said, Oh, well you should have reported this thing, They would easily in a discussion, easily conclude that you did it correctly.
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But let's say I'm wrong on that, because that's, that's possible. So the irises now, we think it's this way.
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Well, they would have to send you a statement of underreporting, in which case you'd have a chance to amend your return which I don't recommend.
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You would also have a chance to get a determination letter, which is in my other video.
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You'll see it's in the, in the new inner circle section of the videos, um, which I don't see that, necessarily happening.
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unlikely.
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But what I'm saying is, there's a remedy, all right?
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You have things in place, two.
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It's not the end of the world, OK.
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You can also, the IRS would also, for example, they would do an audit, whether or not they call you in for an audit with a summons.
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That's an option. People don't think of audits that way. People think of audits in that, they think that they're going to have to be called into the IRS with summits.
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That's not always what happens sometimes the irises reviews, whatever records they can find either from its own records and or third party records and it compiles what's called a Notice of Examination changes and sends it out on the Form 4549.
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If you ever got one of those, which so far, I haven't seen that.
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It would show that the IRS is proposing to assess you on whatever dollars related to virtual currency, and again, that would be easy to fix with a Request for Determination letter.
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And that, like I said, that's going to be, I've already done the first part.
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It's going to be a three part video on the Request for Determination letter if you guys ever have to use it.
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It's in my inner circle, a la carte type videos.
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So, you're not going to be out there without any way to deal with this stuff, and of course, if you can get ahold of me and you know, I will be glad to work with you, but you just should be fine either way.
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Yeah, then they get into this crypto sua swaps are tax free and they, this is back in 20 15 or so they sent everyone into this, chase chasing their tail type of thing.
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Completely irrelevant 10, 31 consideration. Now, some people don't understand the tax code. Their attorneys don't understand the tax code.
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The CPUs don't understand it and they wanted to apply the 2031 Exchange cryptocurrency because kryptos were defined as property. And so they they said, Well that, that means that, I can also do.
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I can I can do an exchange on real estate and defer my taxes if it's a light kind exchange but just the same I can do, I can do that for cryptocurrency.
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And Iris came out and said no. And they added a couple of words to the 1031 section that says, No, this is only for real estate.
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More or less.
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And what that did is nothing, because it didn't change the law.
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It just made it clear, so people understand, the 10 31 has nothing to do with Kryptos, and it never did, and it's irrelevant from the beginning. It's irrelevant, the only thing that matters is disposition of the property, OK, in exchange for dollars.
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Right, it's always been that way.
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All right, so I'm gonna go to some other commentary here, and I want to make a couple of points, just to, just to further give you guys some more background information. So I know I've got some highlights here.
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Let me look up here. So I'm gonna, I'm just gonna look at this has comes from Taxpayer Advocate Service. This is a third party.
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It looks like, like maybe some lawyers, accountants, and they help people with them.
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IRS tax disputes are some internal disputes, or whatever, but it's kinda nice to have really, really good content here.
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But I wanted to point this out, just to demonstrate how that the technology is misunderstood and if see the technology is misunderstood by the people, publishing all this information. And then people like yourself, understand the technology, but you're, you're accepting this information at face value.
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But you don't realize that these people don't understand the technology like you do and they're making wrong conclusions.
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So, let me just demonstrate to you what it looks like. I'm gonna read this. A bitcoin is one example of a convertible virtual currency. Now they'd like to, they'd like to use their terms here, convertible virtual currency. That means it could be converted into dollars.
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Bitcoin is a cryptocurrency which a specific type of virtual currency that uses cryptographic cryptography is to secure transactions that are digitally recorded on a distributed ledger.
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A blockchain is a distributed ledger.
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A transaction involving cryptocurrency that is recorded on distributed ledger is referred to as an on change and transaction.
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Who said that?
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I don't know, I don't know who says that a transaction that is not recorded on the distributed ledger is referred to as an off chain transaction.
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I don't know who come up with this technology, this, or this terminology where individuals can engage directly with each other without necessarily using a trusted third party like a cryptocurrency exchange.
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When you're using the exchanges, There is no change in the blockchain.
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Addresses the contents of the address.
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When you put money into Coinbase for example and you buy the coins, you're using coinbase's spreadsheet software more or less try to reflect the changes you're making as you're moving coins around there is no change whatsoever on the blockchain.
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So this commentary here is wrong. It's incorrect.
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There is no such thing if we if we look at the terms off chain and on chain in the way that this article is explaining, it doesn't even pertain to crypto exchanges.
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It's OK, because the transactions are not being reflected on a blockchain.
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They're being reflected on a good old-fashioned sheet. A soft software program.
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OK, Software sheet.
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So the only way to make a real off chain less colorful may use our technology an off chain transaction would be if I were to put coins.
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Move it to my paper wallet.
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If I take coins off of my Coinbase account and put it on a paper wallet Did the beneficial interests change? No. I'm dealing with myself RNA.
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Yes, so it's not taxable and not reportable.
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Um, if I take that paper wallet and I hand it to somebody who I want seminar Pam for something, don't I give it to someone?
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Does that, Does that create a tax liability, technically, under IRS rules?
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Um, principles that we all follow.
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Yeah, I gave some money or thing of value that's worth money.
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I gave it to somebody for a service, and so the Iris would say, that is compensation.
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And the value of that is taxable.
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So I know it goes against some of the things I've been telling you as far as the value being taxable.
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But when you, when you get to wages, and you get to things like buying real estate, and buying cars, that's where you change the title. Because they're not going to change the way they look at it.
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So if I'm going to pay somebody wages, it's just like buying a house, I have, the title, definitely won wages, I can't tell it differently.
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So, you're kind of stuck.
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If I take virtual currency and I deliver it to somebody where the location of the currency doesn't change in the blockchain, according to the blockchain, there was no disposition of an asset was there.
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So, if I hand somebody the money and I give him the credentials, Alright, it's not a paper wallet. What if I just give them the credentials to access the wallet?
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Mica probably do that all day long. that's an interesting concept as well.
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So, technically I'm not paying someone taxable wages.
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I mean, the transaction can be described that way.
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But if you look at the blockchain, it shows a different story.
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So, it's something to think about, but, I just want to make the point that this person, whoever wrote this, doesn't understand the technology.
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How is it taxed?
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Now, the question assumes that virtual currencies, it's taxed.
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You see how they do that?
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Virtual currency, as we know, is not taxed.
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It, the dollars are being taxed.
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In general, individuals' transact with virtual currency, including buying, selling currency, or exchanging currency, hold the currency as capital asset, and the transaction result in capital gain or capital loss, since virtual currency is considered property.
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The same general rules apply, however, virtual currency received as compensation for services is treated the same as wages, like I just said.
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But, again, like my dad used to say, If they can't see it, they can't tax it, to some extent, that's completely even legal, and I'll explain that in just a second.
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So, But yeah, if you're gonna pay wages, OK, fine, they're gonna, They're gonna look at that as dollars.
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How do you do it? It's just like the truth is on wages There are no wages.
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OK, I mean, if we want to take this down a couple of a couple of steps into the whole the rabbit hole OK, You're not earning wages.
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If you get a job somewhere, OK, the only people earning wages are a congressman government employees federal judges those are wage earners.
11:06
Different subjects, somewhat, but in case So, yeah, if you if you sell like in this example, OK, so she purchased some coins, and then she sold some sure the dollars themselves If the value didn't if the value changed doesn't matter.
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Back to our just saying here. Virtual currency received as compensation for services is treated the same as wages.
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Now, ignore what I just said about wages, not being what you think they are.
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Let's just say they are what you think they are.
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Compensation for services, if I provide a service to somebody that is exercising an intangible property, right?
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I have a right to do that.
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That, right is intangible, that right, is not subject to any lien or encumbrance, OK?
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So, therefore, it's not taxable.
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But, what's been done is, the banking system is monopolized or medium of Exchange and forced us all to use dollars. And then when we come up with other ways to use dollars, they're saying, Oh, that's taxable too.
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But what they don't, they don't want to even talk about, is the fact that my ability to provide services to somebody comes from my I'm taxable intangible property, right? It's a private property, right?
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So, what they're really doing is taxing the medium of exchange, in the exercise of my taxable property, right?
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So bye.
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In effect, they're taxing my on taxable property, right? Just keep that in mind, it's just worth noting.
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So if I come up with a way to do something secretly in my book, that's legal!
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Because I have a right to exercise an intangible property, right?
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And that right, is not subject to any terms and conditions, unless I'm going to use it to harm someone else, OK, or cheat somebody, OK, so, obviously, the sale of it, that's going to be, the dollar version is gonna be taxable, exchanges, Again, there has to be a disposition in the dollars, and then earnings, et cetera, OK? And then we get into hard forks.
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If your value increases, now notice what they do here.
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She, this girl holds 10 units of currency, and there's a hard fork where she gets another 10 units, right?
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So now, the 10 units happen to be worth $50 at the time.
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It's saying here that she'll then have a taxable income of $50 that she must report.
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This is false, the value changed.
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It doesn't need to be reported this way. Now, she can.
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No problem, But, she does not have to.
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It's not until she disposes the asset.
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Because, like I said, you're not required to go get dollars, you're not required to have dollars, if something you own is worth more dollars, and you have to pay tax on it, you have to pay the tax dollars again.
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How are you going to pay the tax dollars?
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If you're not required to have dollars, and you don't have any dollars, see this. This exposes the truth.
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The value goes up.
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Now you have to pay tax on it, OK? How do I do that? I have to go get dollars: how do I do that? I have to dispose of the asset, because there's no other way for me to get dollars. I'm not required to sell property.
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Nor am I required to go get some dollars.
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So if I do oh dollars, taxes on that, tires is gonna have to wait.
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But I don't the fact is I don't, OK, the debt comes when I file a return under penalty of perjury at that moment.
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So and then unreported, that's that paper Wallach example I gave you OK.
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And the exercise of an intangible property right?
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So this is what I talk about a lot, most of the things I deal with. They don't have to deal with classifying things as gifts.
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I don't like doing that.
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I don't like dealing with charitable donations and exemptions.
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I don't care about soft forks.
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You guys understand all that stuff.
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What I want to talk about is this transactions with yourself. OK, I mentioned this earlier.
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This is where the beneficial interests do not change.
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This is their way of saying or this, whoever wrote this website, describing the, the nature, the beneficial interests, versus title, interests.
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So, for example, if I hold title to my house, I live in, if I hold title and the trust, the trust is the title holder, but I still retain the beneficial interests. Same for an LLC.
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Somebody made up that distinction a long time ago, I think that just kinda came with the tax code, but it has been very useful because I can do all kinds of things with understanding this.
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Transactions with yourself or where there's no change in beneficial interests, OK.
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All right. So, let's see what else is worth talking about here. Yeah. Anyways, we've covered all this. I mean, in my other videos, you'll see, there's, I mean, from, for years, I've been doing this timeless, there's articles on this stuff, you guys probably already understand this quite well.
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But back to what I was saying, my answer to, what do I say, am I, 10, 40?
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It's no unless you got a 1099.
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Thanks for watching.