0:03 Hi everyone, this is John Jay, Thanks for joining today, is a revision of the recording we did on September 23rd. 0:10 I just wanted to revise it a bit and make it brief, cover everything, and y’all have some really good questions. So I’m I brought these into this this recording, I added a c…

Hi everyone, this is John Jay, Thanks for joining today, is a revision of the recording we did on September 23rd.
I just wanted to revise it a bit and make it brief, cover everything, and y’all have some really good questions. So I’m I brought these into this this recording, I added a couple of things that I really wanted to bring into the Thursday evening. So I’m just revising.
It is going to publish shortly All right, I’m going to switch screens here like I did before.
I’m going to start with the, We’re going to talk about the news articles regarding crypto taxes.
And I’m gonna explain how you can actually check up on the news to see what’s real.
Instead of just reading a headline and listening to everyone on the telegram chats or whatever And getting afraid or whatever, and not having the complete picture and understand what’s going on, I’m going to show you how you can find out for yourself. What’s real?
So, we’re gonna look here at this, uh, this title here, OK, the bidens to crack down on tax evasion, right?
So, everybody, when they see this crypto investors, that must mean me, right?
Hopefully you’re not trying to evade any taxes. We just want to do the right thing.
Notice the date here. It was May 2021. We got one from September.
So you just look through here, and you see what they’re talking about, right? They always say the same thing, and this has been since the beginning of the tax system forever, where they’re always going to tax the wealthy.
And they’re going to zero in on the wealthy Right? But they don’t, of course, it’s the people that actually make the country work. It’s, it’s us hiding income. Well, I’m going to hide it.
I’m going to hide it.
I’m going to hide my income, if I can.
If I can’t, I’m gonna, I’m going to change the way I own it so that it can’t be taxed and they’ll agree with me, so no big deal there.
Again, tax the rich.
So, and they have a really moral cause here, don’t they? They Want to tax the rich and pay for the infrastructure of the United States.
We’re missing $600 billion, It’s good, It could be up to $7000 billion, We have to get that money from these crypto Maniacs.
right, And It’s a good, It’s a good, cause, we’re gonna build bridges and stuff.
OK, Look, at least from the eighties, all, right, since I’ve been in high school, They’ve, the government, has allowed Infrastructure two to fail, OK, So why, Why the change? Now, they’re lying.
They want it to fail. They want the Bridges to Fail. The Roads to Film Rose to be undone that they want, that they want the rose to be just barely functional, which they are. I mean, they’re over here in Orlando.
They’re building the interstates and they’re always doing that, but, it’s like, it’s perpetual.
Myriad of budgets they have, with Crain’s Always On inter-state four and and and This area, right, in this, you know, not even really, 90, 5, but inter-state four right in the Orlando area.
So, anyways, Yeah, Our roads are functional. They, they do a nice job on that, but ultimately, the, the infrastructure of the United States fails for the most part.
And, so, I don’t believe, what is this claim here. But, it sounds pretty good, and most people that aren’t paying attention are gonna go along with it. You guys know that.
So, now, they’re saying here that we’re going to track meaning, We’re going to get reports on you for transactions exceeding $10000?
Well, certainly that can be done.
That’s easy to be, to be accomplished with software, and yeah, they can regulate and they can regulate but not tax.
They can they can see they can collect information when the property value being conveyed, especially, in this case with kryptos its property, when that property value being conveyed exceeds $10000 in value, it doesn’t mean $10000, certainly $10000 and a wire transfer is going to be easily seen so, it’s $3000. I mean, don’t fool yourself. It’s, it’s not about the amount, it’s about the pattern of how the money is being set.
So, Bitcoin and other currencies are classified as property, and they’re subject to capital gains. Taxes, OK? So we all understand this. Just don’t have a capital gain situation. All right? Don’t have that in your name, that’s pretty easy one.
Let’s see.
Yeah, and they’re still saying you have to report on yourself.
Well, OK, so here’s where I’m gonna show you how there they, they make people think that they’re caught there, busted. And so, yes, we caught you and you’re going to have to telling yourself, because if you don’t, we’re gonna get you right. So let’s go to the next article, here.
Here’s how this OK. So Crypto Tax Reporting changes may lead to IRS crackdown, OK, another one. It’s kind of a warning and all this stuff.
And they’re talking with the infrastructures. It’s, it’s overnight. It’s the same thing all over again. Here we go, like it’s, it’s September.
Um, it’s going to come out later, you know, they’re going to bring it in, you know, this is coming. No big deal. The IRS has been pounding the table to Congress. The Iris has been there’s. There’s been a severe deficiency in tax compliance.
Well, you know, if you went tax people so much, maybe they would be more willing to fill out the forms. And as it is right now, everyone’s trying to get away from this system and the worse you make it for them. They’re going to want to do it And justifiably so.
Um, so there’s no statutory requirement for crypto exchanges and other income generating platforms to issue year end reports of taxable gains.
There’s kind of a statutory, You got this third party payment processor type network, like PayPal, OK, so those guys are going to do 100,099 K, K one and things like that.
I think that’s already in place, I think it’s required.
Maybe it’s not, but still, they’re talking about, this is how they’re getting the information from, anything, but a W two situation.
We already know that and so, They’re just explaining how they know, gonna apply it, what they’re gonna do.
It’s going to be implemented more than likely.
I’m sure you guys have seen this.
So I’m not going to belabor that, but let me just go to the next article, I think, OK, so here, so, this is get, OK, this is crypto news.
Let’s see if it’s pretty much the same thing, Can come for you. Oh, that sounds Gary.
If you owe them, OK, so don’t owe them.
So, they bring in this guy with all these titles, next to his name and he’s gonna say, we’re gonna fix this.
All right, nice.
So, like here, so, irises intensified its efforts to get hold of data on crypto transactions by taxpayers, making seizing debts.
All the easier, now, up until now, I haven’t seen the IRS go and take people’s Bitcoin, but it should be pretty easy for them to do that.
Like, for example, if you owe the IRS money or a creditor could probably come in there and get a court order, it can be done.
I’m starting to I’m starting to see that, but in the years leading up till this year, I haven’t seen the willingness of attorneys and the IRS to try to take crypto holdings in and make you liquidate them for dollars. Or just take them unless it was at SEC thing with the Reggie Middleton.
And I have seen it, though, in people filing bankruptcy, because when you file bankruptcy, you’re just giving up, right, and you’re giving up in exchange for protection from the United States. And if you’re gonna get that protection, You just pretty much have to do what you’re told. That’s what bankruptcy is all about.
Let’s see, what else. Yeah. And if you’re trying to make a deal with the IRS on something you omit that they’re gonna, they’re gonna ask about crypto. They’ve been doing that for several years now. So you have to tell the truth on that, and yeah, if you haven’t been your name Sure, you gotta talk about it.
OK, so, this is something they’re starting new crypto industry indicates Railers are embracing the asset class, OK, so they’re starting to really look into this um, let’s see please?
So, they’re saying what they can do? They’ve been doing this already?
They’ve been seizing coins, which are assets, right?
They look at capital assets, I guess, is what they’re calling them, property.
Don’t know how other countries have done it, so we’re going to do it anyways. Let’s go to the next one. So, this is what I want to get to.
Notice with this articles from Forbes, one of the big players in all the information, the scared the scare. What do you call it, news?
So they’re saying, hey, we’re gonna hear the rules, so we’re going to lay it down. Right? So for those of you who asked me, what, when do I get a 1099 from Coinbase?
Well, this is it this is the criteria And if I remember correctly, I think it was under 26 CFR Part 650 or 60, 50 W It doesn’t even matter.
This is it’s in the news.
You can just see it and this is correct. I can just tell you.
Um, and yeah, it’s the 1099 but you see how they’re, They’re laying this out.
As if you get a 1099, it’s the yen debt.
So, what’s interesting is the IRS knows you have reportable transactions.
Now, there’s, there is thing here where it says.
Let’s see.
Yeah. They can do a summons so the IRS can do is someone’s, here’s what they would do. They would do an audit and a summons. And a summons is not even really a subpoena but I’ll tell you this. A summons from the IRS is under rule 27 other Federal rules of Civil procedure.
And Rule 27 allows for discovery before you have jurisdiction in the court to sue somebody for something. So normally, in order to get discovery in the US, District Court under the authority of the Court, no.
In order to get permission to require someone permission from the court to require someone to give you records or answer questions, you have to prove to the court that you actually have the right to sue somebody. With Rule 27, you don’t. You just have to go to the court and say, I don’t really have a right to sue somebody yet, but I really want to conduct discovery, to figure out if I do, will eventually have the right to sue. Somebody.
May wanna listen to that again, because this is behind your audit summits. This is where they’re getting the authority. It’s real 27 of the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure.
And it’s a way to, to harness the US.
District Courts authority, the police power of the court, to enforce discovery without stating a cause of action.
I mean, they’re very slick with this whole system in any case.
So, you’ve got this here, and this is where everybody freaks out. Oh my gosh, if I get a 1099 what. then, if I, if my company gets a 1099, well, this does not create a tax liability.
Yeah, it tells the IRS what, what money went where.
But, until the recipient of the 299 and the money files, a tax return, that is what creates the liability. You’ve heard me say this many, many times.
This will not, however, a person like you or me, If we have before file 10 forties and we get a 1099, with our SSN on there, the IRS is going to want its cut.
Unless you can get it corrected unless it’s erroneous.
And for each and every one that I’ve had over the last few years, since 2017, I think, all the ones that I’ve received, we were able to get the IRS to agree that that 10 99 was erroneous and that it would be excluded from the 10 40 when a person got a 1099 showing dollars received on a crypto exchange.
When those dollars were not received, when that person didn’t sell, Even though he made all kinds of trades between coins, we were able to make the correct legal argument to the IRS, the Secretary of the Treasury, and get. An agreement that, Yeah, that was erroneous. We don’t want to hear about it, we don’t care.
Just do the right thing, and people say, Yeah, I talk to my CPA. He’s all by the book.
Well, am I not, I’m not telling you something that’s not by the book, that this, in fact, asking the IRS itself for illegal determination on something is certainly by the book. In fact, I used the IRS’s own form, let her do this.
So, just buy the book, There is no other way to do this stuff.
So, subpoenas, I mean subpoenas, I hardly ever see subpoenas from the IRS, they don’t do that. Again, they use Rule 27, IRS, audits, summons.
It’s actually way easier to do it that way.
Now, the reason why they would use a subpoena by the way, they’re going to subpoena records from exchanges. Now. I believe that they were just doing it as an exercise. I think it was a couple of years ago, they’re saying 2018. They did it, I believe, as an exercise, to show that they could do it, because they would survive all the challenges, which I knew they would, they would do that. No problem. And they can’t get all the records, they can get bit stamped to give up its users and these are centralized exchanges. They heavily information in. There are also required to do, know your customer type disclosures.
So, they’re going to have all that stuff, but all that shows is what you bought.
It doesn’t, it could show what you sold, but that’s going to be reported anyways.
So, this is just a way to scare people.
They already know, or can know what you bought. And so what?
Let me just give you a quick example of why I don’t care.
Or maybe I’m crazy, and that’s another example.
But here’s, here’s why I really think Because if I really don’t want someone to see what I’m doing, we have the technology, we have the software, that’s the whole nature of this whole crypto space, right?
I can wire money, or I can take money from my company account or my individual account OK, with my SSN on there, and I can fund my Coinbase purchase and I can buy all kinds of coins, and I can trade them on the, on Coinbase.
And, and that can be seen, and I don’t see a problem with that.
I just tell people, use the software that you feel is most convenient for what you’re doing. If you really want some privacy, will check this out. Why don’t you just buy one Coin, or by a stable coin on Coinbase all of it put all your money in the stable coin or the single coin, as soon as those funds clear. Move it off into a hard wallet or move it off into a dedicated software based Wallet.
A dedicated computer.
OK, or kill them Brown for example. Kill them Brown doesn’t report.
So it’s real simple. You. You buy the stable coin, and only by that on Coinbase, and you come right off the Exchange. And then when you go to take profits, you don’t always have to go back through the exchange. Some of it might come through.
But you can also, you roll it over into something else, which we discussed at length.
But let’s say you put a thousand dollars into Coinbase, and now it’s worth $100,000 within a short time.
And I put it all back on Coinbase who’s to say where that money came from.
Who knows?
You see?
It doesn’t really matter, OK? So enough of that, Let’s go, let’s go over to this. Here.
It’s fine.
This website, this is where you have the regulations. This is where the IRS can do subpoenas.
Financial Crimes network can do subpoenas.
The SEC can do subpoenas where you’re involved in this money services business definition. So don’t be doing these things, don’t be a currency dealer or Exchange or don’t do things that constitute being a currency dealer. You can see what it is, right down here.
You can look it up, OK. Any person doing business, if you’re opening an account at Coinbase, you are not doing business.
OK, especially if you’re not using other people’s money. Now, I know some of you are using your family’s money, and they’re giving you money and you’re doing it for them to help mountain be nice and your friends and all that.
Don’t tell people that.
You can certainly do that.
If you tell these third parties, they’re going to say, oh, money, services business, you have to get a license, and they’ll freeze your account, make you do all that stuff.
So certainly whatever money your family gives you, and your friends, it’s all private. Between ya’ll, OK?
You’re not a check casher you’re not an issue of traveler’s checks, right? You don’t sell the redeemed traveler’s checks.
Not a money transmitter mandate.
They make this definition so wide and possible, just, it’s possible. Just don’t use other people’s money as far as they can tell. OK.
And of course, you’re not the US. Postal Service, so that is a money, services business. Avoid that.
Let’s go to what, OK, so I’m I’m showing you this Federal Register here.
Now, Federal Register is where the, let’s say, the IRS, but every government agency, that wants to make rules. Now, here’s how it works. Congress writes a law. It gets codified into statutes. It shows up in one of the 50 titles of the United States Code.
Within a certain time, a Director who’s created a Director’s office is created by the statute if it’s new or the Secretary, OK, the head office of that agency has to promulgate rules, and then those rules go into a body of books law called the Code of Federal Regulations.
That is the rulemaking authority.
That’s where you find it for all these agencies.
So we have Title 26 of the United States Code gives rise to Title 26 of the Code of Federal Regulations and the Directors Authority, or the Secretary’s authority to implement the powers and authorities and duties that were created by the statute.
And so in order to change those, they can only be changed within the purview of the statute.
So if the statute says, OK, you have this much authority and this much obligation, whatever the regulations come in to do, they have to be within the limitations here.
I would just guess that most regulations are going to be within that very seldom do you find some that are outside that.
So you just have to think critically. But let’s just make this easy. Let’s just look and see what’s really going on, instead of following Forbes.
Let us go to the source, OK, When regulations are going to be consider, it takes about a year and a half.
Look, here.
So, if I go to the Federal Register, I can see, we’ve got their talk, and here’s an article that, that comes to, see, this is from May of this year, OK, that are self regulatory organizations.
Right, Sky Bridge, Bitcoin, ETF Trust.
These are things that have to be there dealing with third party money. Right?
Let me just flip over here real quick.
I’m going to show you something, here’s another one.
OK, I’m gonna show what I did to get there.
So maybe it’s over here just to be.
one more.
So, here’s what I did. I searched on Virtual Currency Statement of Work.
I don’t need to search on that, what I really wanted to show you guys, what you do is you go to the federal register dot gov, federal register dot gov, OK?
You can search on what what concerns us right here is convertible virtual currency.
Guess what I’m gonna find?
I found 30 documents. This is the news, OK?
This is what they’re doing and they’re trying to get your permission or approval or comments on it.
Let’s look at it. Rate requirements for certain transactions involving virtual currency.
Notice how FinCEN has involved Financial Crimes Network. Notice our money services businesses is involved.
This is all third party money when I say third party money and Currency cryptocurrency, that’s valued in dollars.
Which all of it is, data’s what’s being regulated.
So notice, it’s about using other people’s money.
It always has to do with other people’s money and currency cryptocurrency, that’s valued and dollars. That’s what this is talking about, OK?
Certainly they can regulate these things.
They can regulate the value where there’s value in dollars that can regulate it.
This has nothing to do with your individual tax liability, OK?
What they want to do, though, is, they want to turn all the exchanges, and the third parties into reporting people.
Organizations, they want to turn them into IRS agents, and I showed you, well, I didn’t I didn’t get it this time, but basically, there are, there are publications that describe how they’re regulating the exchanges. So basically, and I’ve always said this from the beginning, Coinbase is the SEC. Coinbase is the IRS.
So what?
Just follow the rules, do what I’m suggesting: use common sense.
It’d be fine. Don’t try to go out of your way to get a tax deduction. Don’t don’t do any craziness and, you know, try to get deductions when you really shouldn’t be.
I’m going to go over that too, here.
So, anyways, This is what they’re talking about, but this is how you find it, OK.
This is the news.
Threshold, requirement to collect, retain, and transmit information of funds transfers.
Let’s see involving cryptocurrency, alright, with legal tender status that cryptocurrency, which we see in terms of dollars, that’s what they can, they can regulate, they can’t tax it though. They can, they can see it, they can try to collect information on it.
Look at this, requiring financial institutions to collect and retain information on certain funds.
This proposed modification would reduce the threshold from $3000 to 250, they’ve been doing this forever.
They’ve got software, all they do is change the controls, and we’ll never discover what that is, because it’s really proprietary. They can’t. They don’t have to tell us.
So, just just believe that they can see everything OK, And that’s how I’ve always acted since the nineties. I’ve always, I’ve always done things with, with money, clients, money, and planning, assuming that the IRS can see everything.
Never had a problem.
Here we go, so, saint Simonian, so here, this is the rulemaking process, OK?
I got this from federal register dot gov, it’s somewhere as a link somewhere on the website.
OK, this is a better use of your time. Don’t say, don’t Google stuff on Forbes.
Read this.
This tells you what they’re supposed to do, if you keep on scrolling.
This is explaining how it works.
This is very interesting to, I mean, I like this stuff, I mean, this is kind of boring, but really?
When when the government declared bankruptcy, again, in 19 33, when it published it, it wrote the US. Congress prepared, was called the government re-organization plan, and when you do a bankruptcy you have to you have to provide the trustee with a re-organization plan in a bankruptcy, can be administered in any way. Most people understand that bankruptcy through the US. District Court. You can do a bankruptcy in your state, OK. You can petition your court for Insolvency and the Court can appoint a Receiver.
And the receiver can then require the petitioner you to submit a re-organization plan, your plan on how are you going to pay everybody back, even if it’s a discounted rate. So the United States is bankrupt, it’s always been bankrupt, and so it published its bankruptcy or re-organization Plan of 1983.
It was codified in the Title five of the United States Code, Section 5, 5, 2.
And it’s known as the Administrative Procedures Act. And so I have it highlighted here.
It’s bankrupt.
So it’s operating in bankruptcy.
A bankruptcy proceeding for an insolvent party can be a business enterprise.
It can be Make no mistake. I can tell you right now, check this for yourself.
I think Marilyn Monroe’s estate is still in business.
I think Mohammed Alyss as well Maybe Michael Jackson says those are pro beta states though. Same thing as a bankruptcy.
In any case. I don’t want to get too far off topic, But here you go, So here’s how it works.
If this, if you’re concerned about this, you should read this step. I’ve read it.
I’ve been reading this stuff for years off and on, You know, but it’s really interesting how they do things.
And once you understand then you’re not scared This is the, uh, The 62 0 9 manual, and it’s only part of it from what I can gather her it’s only 13 pages. I’m sorry, It’s 613 pages, OK, So yeah, this is probably the entire 609 manual back in the nineties. It was on paper, so there’s this huge thick book.
I don’t think it was 600 pages back, that, in any case, this book is on the internet for just ask for it.
They call it the protection book dot com. I don’t know who’s publishing this, but it’s public record now. You can search on the Iris IRS 62 0 9 manual, OK?
Why do I want this? I’ll give you a quick story.
I’ve got to say on Thursday, so I mentioned this already mentioned it here. If you’ll see, I’m just scrolling through, and you see definitions, right? Abbreviations?
It just starts. It starts giving you a better understanding what’s going on. I’ll just, I’ll say to you that the IRS has the iris process has about, it has exactly three stages. You have the audit process. That doesn’t mean you’re gonna get audited. It just has the audit examination process.
Then, it has a process where you get to decide or have a review of whatever that was determined in the audit process, so, that might mean tax court, it might mean review of the US. district court, it depends on what your situation is.
It might be an administrative review of the individual auditor or supervisor, whatever, so, that’s, that’s, OK, The first stages, audit examination, the second stage is figuring out if you have any objections that can be used to change what the auditor said, OK, then, after that, if the money is not paid, the settlement is not completed, you go into the collections phase.
That’s third Stage thirds is with third stages where they do levees and lanes, OK.
So, To that.
two, to do audits they need all this coated system here.
I mean, because, remember, when this started, they started implementing computers, and the computer had limited memory. So, we kinda get stuck with a coding system, and it’s still here, and they still do it. It’s like a cultural habit.
So, we still have this, um, coding system, and I remember some of these things from Way Back Document Locator numbers, and transaction codes and things like that, so, I’ll just tell you a quick story.
So, anyways, I’m looking through this thing, and I didn’t know about this until I had this situation. I had a client back in, Oh, gosh. It was probably 1995.
And I had to fly out to Missouri and this gentleman who was a farm owner and he was filing some silly things with the IRS. He was just battling the IRS. He just started to fight with them. So, he wasn’t filing returns, and so they were taking all this stuff.
So, this guy, He had a big farm.
He had lots of vehicles on his property, and lots of stuff, tractors and whatnot, and they actually came out his property, because he felt a bankruptcy to try to fight the IRS. That came out there in the inventory to everything and they were taken it.
So I got involved in the middle of that, and I was new, I didn’t know too much, It was my first case, and my partner was helping me, of course. So I started learning all this stuff like fast, OK, because this guy was going down. And it was, it was to the like the 11th hour.
And so I got the idea that I would I would go into through this documentation here and I would find out what this farmer was being taxed for. Let’s just start there because the reason why I asked for this is because on all the documents, where the IRS is, imposing liens levies on this guy. The type of tax was listed as Form 1040.
And Form 10, 40 is not a type of tax, It’s a form.
It took me a while to realize that, because my partner kept saying, Look, John, born 10, 40.
Does that look like a type of tax to you?
And I was like, Well, that seems like the taks.
No, it’s not, It’s a form.
When I saw this, and I forget how I saw this, but someone introduced it to me. We’re trying to work this case.
And I’m scrolling through, and I said, OK.
Let’s go ask the IRS through its disclosure office, what this person is being taxed for. So now, I’m dealing with the levy office, and I go to the disclosure office to different parties, they don’t talk to each other. They willingly just gave me everything I asked for, so I did a Freedom of Information Act request. It was a two page letter, I think.
And I said, I want to know the tax activity for which this individual is being taxed.
And I got the report back, and he was being taxed. Now this guy was a flower farmer. He was a seasonal flower farmer, and I think he made the flowers for.
He grew them for the Thanksgiving Day Parade of the Maces Macy’s Day Parade. I think that was it, That was this whole farm, for, like, 30 years. He did that. Or whatever, you know, seasonal.
So he was being taxed for manufacturing, pistols, and Revolvers, and I don’t remember the code of that, but this is where I found it.
So I thought, OK, well, what’s going to deal with that? Well, how do I deal with that? Well, let me just flip over here real quick, just to show you guys. this is how useful this is. Once you know what’s going on, she’s not afraid of this stuff anymore.
Look, this is what I discovered.
I use this statute when I discovered this. Farmer was being taxed for manufacturing, pistols, and Revolvers, he certainly was not doing that. I looked at the statute here, now, this statute.
It involves offenses by officers of the United States, which are revenue agents, OK.
So, if they’re doing things like this, which some of this qualified.
All right?
Let me see what it says in here.
Alright. What did we do here? So, I forget how I got the information.
But in any case, I went to the statute and I realized that I could file a complaint.
Administratively I didn’t have to sue anybody and I had I reported the agent, I was one agent, I reported the agent for violating 7214 And I sent it to the FBI.
That’s the enforcement agency for the IRS.
When you have a situation like that.
And so within a month, all the levies and lanes were released, they backed away. They gave them a step back, and like, it never happened, and of course, nothing ever happened to the agents that I know of.
Uh, and so that was just an interesting case. I never had that sense. I don’t think I’ve even use that statute since it just worked out that way.
So, that’s the 69 minute, didn’t mean to belabor that too much. But this is where you guys might want to find out, find more stuff, OK, so y’all asked me a lot of times about audits.
Let me just check here real quick.
All right, so let me just, this is part nine. I didn’t want to go into this too much right now. Let me go back here, I want to go to Part four.
The examination process, OK, they call it the examining process. So, in part four.
I’m going to show you a couple of sections here.
This is what I base a lot of my decisions on, about how I structure things for people.
Not that I care about an audit. I don’t care if there’s an audit, I just want to be prepared for it. Because you can’t stop the audit.
I’ve tried, I’ve actually tried to sue them before an audit during an audit to stop them, and know the case law says, no, you gotta wait till after the audit. So.
It’s OK, um, so the examination process, this is telling you what their basically internal office procedures are, OK.
Quite lengthy.
This is the Internal Revenue Manual for the IRS.
You can search by that phrase.
All right.
They’re pretty good about following their own local rules.
Gotta give them that.
Here’s how they build a case.
Now, let me, let me mention this to you.
So, here’s what the IRS sees. Either they see an employee or an employer.
OK, that’s all it sees.
The IRS is not a day, it’s an it. The IRS is singular. It’s a group, it’s one. The IRS sees employees and employers.
Those are designated by the format of the nine digit tax number, the EIN, or the SSM.
It only receives tax returns or statements. Sometimes people follow a financial statement, OK. You can do that instead of a tax return, so that there’s all kinds of things going on. But let me, let me show you, want to have kinda marked here. I want to show you four point, or 4.1 point 5, zero point two zero point four.
The IRS collects information, as you can imagine.
This is telling you where and how it’s doing that.
It’s getting your information from your credit file, from other businesses, from public records, licensing applications. That’s why I don’t like to use an SSN.
If I can avoid it, lots of times, you can’t avoid it, but this is where they’re connecting, that’s why they want SSNs and everything.
See this.
This is all tied together. This is an identifier.
Identifier. When I use an alias, it’s unregistered. And sometimes I just do it temporarily.
You know, all this stuff. E-mail addresses.
Really? That’s crazy, OK.
Permits, write financial, information from businesses, et cetera, as you guys probably imagine.
So, let’s go, I’m gonna show you an interesting case to it. Let me go real quick, too.
Let’s see if I can I can search on this.
Let’s see if they’ll do that for me.
No, it’s not going to let me. It’s not that useful.
Let’s do this.
I just want to show you a couple parts here.
2.6, OK.
Now, it’s important to know who you’re talking to, right?
So if you are contacted by the IRS, you want to ask them, what is your, in what capacity are you talking to me? Are you a revenue agent, Are you a tax compliance officer?
Are you with the criminal investigations division?
I’m going to show you something interesting about that and I’m saying this step because like I explained before I do this work because I want to I want people not to be afraid of things and and now also to be able to know how to avoid being exploited.
So I’m going to show you how this stuff works internally.
So there’s that.
So. So they’re actually making a distinction here. This is important. They’re making a distinction between, in the capacity in which an agent’s contacting you and I’m gonna show you how, how that becomes important.
In just a minute, I’m going to go back to here.
OK, too, Juan.
Sorry if I’m taking a bit too long here and here we go.
So, here’s how, when someone comes to me for help, this is where I try to get him to, and I’ll explain what that means.
So, the, the Iris has determinations. It mixed determination based on certain criteria as to whether or not someone’s collectable someone’s collectable. If someone has enough money well, then they’re gonna, they’re gonna try to get it.
They’re going to try to coercion into paying them if they can’t get it.
They’re pretty good about that.
This is telling you and the IRS agents how it’s to make those determinations.
The iris will determine that you’re uncollectable and you’re not worth pursuing.
If there’s a hardship.
I always make my client appear to have a hardship for the rest of his life.
Ah, by do that by showing that he’s insolvent.
Legally, I mean, we strip assets and things like that.
But there’s nothing wrong with that.
I mean, this is just a matter of risk management.
We don’t do bankruptcy’s, I don’t recommend those.
I don’t get into that too much decisions, having no assets. That’s a kind of a situation where you get benefit in some way.
I have done that before, I can make it disappear, That’s not necessary.
Now, because the problem, I don’t like that all the time, because the IRS can proceed against you and not notice you if it has your, if it operates on your last known address. And, and so, I don’t want them to be able to create something without you being able to defend it.
Or understand what’s going on and deal with it without, without them telling you. So, I don’t like to be in these situations where they’re unable to locate your contact you, but I have done that before.
Of course, business hardship and a business hardship, what I do is I turn it into an individual hardship, dissolved the business or whatever, if I can. Now, there’s something here called, something. What else is a de minimis statute expired? While in the active status, what does this de minimis? It comes from the phrase de minimis non cure at lax. It’s a Latin phrase, which means the law does not concern itself with trivial matters.
So let’s say you owe the IRS 50 bucks, probably not going to deal with you, Probably not going to care. Maybe it’s $150 not going to care. They’ll not send you a letter. This is an individual determination as you can see the IRS agent.
Because, look, just sending you a letter and dealing with it, I mean, if you objected to him, it might cost them a thousand dollars to get you to get the $150 out of your $50.
So it’s known as a de minimis collection, etcetera. So, don’t wanna get too far into that criteria question. Let’s see if I get to the next next section up here.
Ah, 4.3 point 4. 4 1 5, 3, 3.
I want to get to 3, 4.
Capital transaction.
1 1, I’m gonna go back a little bit.
OK, here’s a list, for some reason I’m an American, it’s one point four one five three four hundred eleven, OK.
So, the Iris has to determine if the income is sufficient? OK, so, here’s how they have criteria. This is why when I do an often compromise based on a doubt as to collectability, I want to make sure the client’s numbers matches demographic so, let’s just quickly, here’s what I mean by that.
If you live in the Hamptons, your living expenses are going to be higher than a guy who lives in Detroit.
That’s simple, OK. So that data is public. It can be obtain it through marketing marketing. People have that information. So the Iris has an information, OK, so if you’re living, expenses are way far under the normal.
This is kind of, this is going to trigger the IRS to want to know more about it, OK? And also here’s some other criteria.
See things that people do.
They don’t know that these are criteria that the IRS pages look for it. because it’s been happening for thousands of times for a century, OK? There’s nothing new.
Even when I’m doing it’s not new.
You just didn’t hear about it.
OK, so these are the criteria that they would look for.
So let’s move on This last one you guys care about. This has to do with this next one. We’re … virtual currency, so if I can get to that Went to, OK, so here we are, We’re getting close. We’re getting close.
OK, All right.
Here we go, Virtual currency. That’s what they’re looking for. Gains on sales of virtual currencies should be questioned to determine if the taxpayer reported the taxable transactions as ordinary income or capital gains as appropriate.
Let me go back here.
This comes from the Internal Revenue Manual Gain.
Sale, virtual currency, whereas Exchange and Trading and all that, you see this is just common language used in the news.
They know that it’s taxable or at least reportable and so they’re saying Did it wasn’t reported correctly?
Gains in sales, does the taxpayer have form 1099?
All this stuff hasn’t been issued. It, is it. Is it conflict with what he reported? Now, when I do my request for determination later, this is the, this is the criteria that I’m going to avoid.
I don’t want them to harass my client about this. You could, you could file your return, ignore the 1099, have the IRS ask you about it, and then go ahead and justify why you excluded it. Fine.
Most people don’t have the stomach for that. I don’t want to deal with that. I would rather ask them ahead of time now.
You can only do that once you get the 1099 and you can do it when you file your 10 forties or after you’ve prepared your 10 forties before you file. You send a copy that in with the Request for Determination Letter.
But you can’t just do it for like next year. You have to wait to get a 1099, OK.
Is the taxpayer’s occupation listed within the virtual currency industry? Now I don’t know why they want to know that.
Maybe you have some sort of special knowledge and they want to use that against you, I don’t know.
I mean, it’s scary there.
That’s not what this call us about. I wanted to show you guys this thing, here.
I’m gonna, I’m gonna summarize this case, OK, this is a case is called US Versus Twill.
And I believe it was in the sixties And it was, it’s in the fed, the federal reporter, second volume, second series, OK, Fed second, so what they call it, it’s in volume 550 fed second starts on page 297. That’s how you read this thing.
All right, I’m gonna tell you about this case, So this guy, he was his bad guy, OK? He was trying to avoid taxes. He was stupid doing it the wrong way. I think he was doing some criminal things, too.
Anyways, he got caught, got an attorney.
The IRS also is doing some illegal things, and so this guy’s attorney caught it, and so, here’s what the IRS was doing: they contacted the sky, and, uh, these agents, several of them, and it was actually contacted, because the Department of Justice said, Go out and investigate this guy.
So they, they portrayed the investigation as a routine audit, and when it’s an attorney, when it’s attorney asked them back then I think the Criminal Investigation Division was called the Inspectors office or something like that.
Investigation the investigator or something. But anyway, so the attorney asked if you’re a special agent or an investigator and to which the agent replied, no witnesses, the regular audit? And he lied.
So of course, the suspect, unwittingly turned in all his records and gave everything to the IRS that it needed to then turn it over to the Department of Justice, to prosecutor for the crime.
And when they prosecuted, I’m thinking that yet, I think in the end he got to overturn, are part of it because the Irish lied and said now we’re not conducting a criminal investigation when in fact they were.
US versus Twitter. You can read the case law. It’s really cool.
Some of you love this.
Uh, when you read this case law, you can go pull the case the same way I pulled this one. All I did was search on the citation, OK, as you know? But anyways. So the ruling was this.
The holding of the case was, silence can only be equated with fraud when there is a duty to disclose.
Now notice I didn’t read that from the case. I just happened to memorize that because it was so important. I’ve used it several times over the years. I’ve used it, in many cases.
I believe you’ll find that word for word in this, in the holding, in this case.
So, I just thought you’d find that consistent with everything else we’re doing. I’m gonna mention one more thing.
There is a, um, you can look this up. There is a doctrine of law.
It’s called the Uniform Fraudulent Conveyance Act.
It’s an all 50 States. It’s around the world. It’s under International Law Swell Law of Nations. But you’ll find it codified in most of the 50 states, in their body of statutes. So it might be in Title 38, Arizona, revised statutes, Section 12. I want I don’t know. I’m just making that up.
OK, so but that is the uniform fraudulent conveyance X So what that what that means is if you convey property to the prejudice of a creditor, then the creditor can go to the Court for remedy the Court.
You can go to the Court, or you can go to some authority, and he can get the Court to intervene and say, OK, that conveyance defeated the legitimate claim of a creditor and you have to undo that or you have to liquidate and make that creditor whole.
If it’s a fraudulent conveyance and it’s a process, and it’s civil, it’s not, it’s not criminal fraud doesn’t mean criminal, OK? It can be. But mostly 99% of the time it’s civil, because people just want money.
So in a fraudulent conveyance, if I have a lien on something, and someone conveys the interest to a third party that’s innocent, then I can go to the Court and I can get a remedy. I can.
I can get the Court to require that conveyance to come back, or I can have the person who did that pay me in some way I can get a remedy.
Well, if I record a lien on some property on some real estate, for example, and then that that that property is conveyed out of that person’s name, that debtors name, I’m actually, not prejudiced, because the lien still continues to attach, because it was recorded before the convince took place.
So I can’t really complain for fraudulent dance.
But I still have a difficult time with the Court, because I still gotta go back to the court, and I get to ask some sort of extra effort to get that property or liquidate something or are still make sure that lien attaches.
So an example I want to share with you is, And again, I’ve been, I’ve done over 30,000 of these types of collections and situations since the mid nineties, and, um the one great most recent example was that we had set up a company for a lady who owns real estate, and we convey the title well. we convey the title one week before one of her creditors follett judgement lien.
Now, technically that is a fraudulent conveyance because that case was pending for like a year, year and a half. So I waited a week until before the judgement was accorded and we, we combated. Well six months later, she went to sell the property.
And the attorney involved, and this would, all the attorneys do with the attorney involved, was really harassing her about.
The fact that the lien was recorded, even though it was a week after she conveyed the property to the company, that was going to receive the money from the sale.
The attorney said, you still have to pay this debt, or weren’t, can do the closing, and so she didn’t know what to do, And so she called me up, and she was really, she was beside herself, and I said, well, well, that, you know, the lien was lien was recorded already, and yeah, it’s a fraudulent conveyance But it can’t do anything about it, because the date of the Lean is what controls.
He’d have to go back to the Court and argue Frasure confessed he could have done that.
He had the right to do that that’s why I told her I said He has the right to go there and argued. But he’s not going to it’s probably not going to succeed. It’s probably not going to do anyways because it’s really expensive.
And probably the judge won’t let them, OK. So, here’s what I told her to tell him, and I wrote a little e-mail to her, and I said, basically tell the attorney.
He cannot use the statute to travel back in time and attach a claim to something that he doesn’t have a legal right to do.
I told him he can’t use statutes to travel back in time. To be a smart ***. And that’s what she did, and she was called me on the phone, she’s laughing. You know. So, it’s kinda funny.
So anyways, I want to share that story, because, know, there is a reality out there, and yeah, you can do the wrong thing sometimes. I hope you don’t. I hope you don’t have to. But if it means I’m going to protect your property, you bet I’m going to do the wrong thing. As long as it’s not illegal, OK?
I’ll do the wrong thing and make them have to do extra effort, and usually, they don’t do the extra effort, OK? Now there’s some other questions that were asked throughout the call.
So I’m going to cover those now.
In this case, US. Versus twill.
What happened is I don’t know if there was a policy change then, or if it already existed, but basically if you are being contacted by the IRS and you’re being asked for information, or you’re being asked for meetings or anything, you are not under criminal investigation. There is no criminal implication in whatever subject matter. That is the subject of the discussion.
If your tax matter is within the Criminal Investigation Division, it’s an it’s under investigation for a possible crime that you may have committed.
You will not hear a word from the IRS.
OK, so that would concern me, right, If the IRS isn’t talking to me and I think there’s something going on that would concern me, hearing from the IRS should not concern me at all. I’d be thankful to hear from the IRS, OK? Just keep that in mind.
So did the project conveys OK. So it turns out somebody was explaining, I didn’t even know this, because sometimes I just don’t do the research, and something, but somebody was asking about filing a company in Ohio.
OK, a limited liability company registered in the state of Ohio, does not have an annual filing fee, and I believe it does not have an annual report.
So that that goes into our list of states that don’t require annual fees or reports, which is New Mexico, Pennsylvania, and Ohio.
So, if you, if you’re interested in that. You can use Ohio, you can register a company in a state, and then you can open a bank account even if you live in a different state. That really doesn’t matter. Yeah, you do have to deal with the, you know, answering some questions about that. Explain yourself a little bit. Sometimes. It is a hassle. Sometimes you have to create records, but we can get around that.
I also learned during the call that you can apply as a foreigner if you need to have an LLC bank account in the states and you’re you don’t have a US residency or a US citizenship.
You can apply for an EIN, the employer identification number, OK? this is the tax number for LLCs in the states.
You need the tax number because the banks will then open your account. It’s not, it’s not a legal requirement. It’s a bank requirement.
So, if you have an LLC that’s registered in one of the states and let’s say you’re from Ireland.
By the way, Ireland has put some pretty good statutes over there for LLC. So, I don’t know white girl states, but let’s just say you went to the states, got an LLC, and then you take your LLC and domesticate it somewhere else. You don’t need a tax number from here for that.
If you need a bank account in the states for some reason, then yeah, you’re going to have to get an EIN. And the way to do that is you would call the International Office with the, with the IRS.
I believe it’s IRS dot gov, and you would call on the phone and speak with somebody. And they’ll ask you more questions than they would ask normally people that are here in the States. And that, and that’s a way to get an EIN for an LLC.
When you do not have the applicant who has his own tax number, because that’s how the applications are here in the states now, and it changed, like, back in the nineties where the applicant for an EIN has to use his SSN in the application process. And by the way, that does not create a tax liability, doesn’t create any problem of any kind.
People just don’t like doing it, but it’s not a problem.
So you don’t have to pay a $50 fee, although you could. There are people that will for $50 use their SSNs to get your EIN for your LLC.
So you can open a bank account in the states. You can do it that way.
You can call in, thank you for the people that gave me that information. So you would just call on the IRS and they’ll work with you if you’re from another country, OK?
And then kill them in Brown, I heard recently. They’re gonna, they’re gonna not. They want to deal with LLCs have PMA is no problem. Just tell them whenever you need to, to get the account open. We’ve been doing that forever, OK? They weren’t.
They didn’t like those in the beginning until I said that the account signer was also the trustee for the PMA, and that was fine for them, and this should be fine with that, OK? Because remember, the PM is not the account holder, the LLC is, and you’re the signer, and you gave him all your KYC information.
So it shouldn’t be a problem, but I think we’ll get past that. But just know, it doesn’t matter.
The articles control plus Calvin Brown is in Australia. It’s a different country. They might want to copy the articles, but they’re not going to follow up. Just like your local banks are not going to follow up.
So, you can amend the articles, make them whatever you want. All we’re carrying about right now, is that, when you’re dealing with crypto transactions and you’re gonna get some dollars out of it, and enroll somebody over. You don’t want that to show up on a 1099 with your name and SSN.
All we’re trying to do is make the report show up with your company name and its EIN, OK, You can change the articles or not.
You can tell the third party like Halo and Brown in your bank whatever is going to get your account open. You can tell me 100% owner, I don’t recommend doing that. Try not to, but if you have to do it.
Just remember that your articles control.
Now, if the bank gets wise and says, Oh, you have to amend the articles, then fine amend the articles. Usually, they don’t.
If they do that, get your account up and wait a couple of months, amend it back to the way you want.
Problem solved. Yeah, it’s all extra work, but so what? We get to have, what we want. All right.
Must see, OK LLCs. Yeah, that’s what we do so if it’s rejected, just do what I said.
Just get your account open.
Any way you can change your articles later, try to do it without change your articles.
You’ll be fine.
For New York residency and dealing with Caleb Brown, for example, all Caleb Brown wants is plausible deniability about your residency, so what you need to show them is a residential address, I would use or an apartment complex, without the apartment number, just pick an apartment complex and write up a lease agreement for the apartment complex. And that should be enough. That doesn’t mean you have to go get a lease. Just write it up.
You can go pull the standard lease agreement from that state, on the Internet, or get a vanilla one. OK, and you can, you can put the information in there, sign it, scan it, send it to kill them, and Brown. That should be enough, if that’s not enough. That’s not legally binding, although they’ll accept it from what I understand. What is legally binding is a declaration of domicile, You can find those on the internet.
I think I even have a video on how to do this.
In fact, the video is called Escape from New York and New York, OK is telling you how to do that, and someone asked me about the … image. Let me just do that two real quick and I’m glad. I made a note here. I’m gonna open up my file. This is my Readme first file and many of you have already received this when you receive LLCs.
And I just changed it last month so you may not have.
But either way, I’m gonna open this up now.
There we go.
And I’m going to show you what the W nine should look like. Here we go.
Here’s what it should look like You see.
There’s your company name. You don’t need line two.
Notice how it says name is required on this line.
Do not leave this blank. It’s shown on your tax return.
That doesn’t mean you have to file a return, it just means if you’re filing one, that’s how it’s supposed to look, we skip line to come down here.
Unbox three, I choose Limited Liability Company I X dot box and then I put a P here, capital P for partnership.
I put the address of the LLC here.
Do not not not put your SSN.
Only put the EIN for the LLC.
OK, the reality here is that as long as my, well, OK, I believe this is the correct way to do it. You can do it any way you want, I believe you can do individually and all this stuff over here.
If you did it that way, that’s fine.
All you care about is you’re certifying the correctness of the EIN and its association or assignment to your LLC.
Once you’ve done that, then the paying party the payor is on the hook to get it right. So that way they can, they can’t be excused by making a mistake of using your SSN for the account holder. That happens sometimes. So, that’s why I say, Do a W 9.
1 last thing on this form, you want to sign it and use your title, so you can sign it, put authorized signatory next to it.
You can sign it as President, Vice President, Managing Member, even though you may not be the managing member, that’s OK.
Authorized signatory is just as good, OK, Sign it that way, always put a title. Maybe you’re the trustee, you can call yourself the trustee, too.
The LLC is not a trust.
You could call yourself the trustee of the LLC, if you want.
That’s unusual, but we can do that.
So, all right, enough of that.
I think we got them all on and make sure I miss anything here, OK? Alright, and then how the PMA works with the LLC. Like I explained, the LLC is a way to create documentation that shows that you don’t have a tax liability.
And then it gives you time too.
Create whatever tax liability or accept whatever tax liability is going to happen.
So the PMA is a nice tool.
It’s a nice method of doing that.
It’s not essential I can use myself and my brother.
I can use myself and any other person besides espouse and I would recommend, any person besides someone who’s a minor. Now, probably a 17 year old should be OK.
16 year old should be OK, but the person should be able to open a bank account, OK?
If you’re going to add another person to the membership of the LLC to give herself charging our protection.
I like a PMA because it can be used with one person, and now you have an association, and the association already exists. So I don’t need documentation for that, although I’m always asked for documentation.
So the abstract documents I give you has that in there.
Um, but yeah, I like the PMA because what’s happening is where I have a liability My brother and I are my friend. and I may not have that same liability because only I had the original liability.
So if I have property rights that are shared with my friend, the claim on that liability that I have with that other party, that’s attachable to me, is not attached to my property rights because they are not mine. They are ours.
And unless we together have the same liability, that’s that, whatever that thing is here is protected, and then I can do what I want with that thing. And the claimant can’t make a make a claim the lienholder, whatever the the IRS, whoever wants money for me.
Can’t attach this property because that the interests are shared OK? That’s the bet, the benefit of using a PMA or anything. You could use a trust. You can use an unincorporated association. You can use a well-known club like the YMCA or something. There’s a corporate version. You can have an unincorporated version.
So I like use a PMA, OK. It’s foolproof never had a problem. Yeah, we do have some difficulty opening bank accounts but we get through that.
Alright, so again, I wanna appreciate, I say I appreciate that, those who contributed the information that I went ahead and was sharing here about these different matters. I didn’t even know about that about Ohio, and about calling in as a foreigner to the IRS. So thank you for that. And I hope this video helps. I think we’ve made pretty good time here.
Thanks for watching.


1. John Jay discusses the importance of independent research in understanding crypto tax and IRS regulations, urging listeners not to rely on headlines or social media chatter.
2. He examines news articles about the Biden administration’s crackdown on tax evasion and suggests skepticism regarding government claims of infrastructure improvements funded by crypto taxes.
3. Jay discusses how the IRS, attorneys, and legal systems deal with crypto holdings, emphasizing the importance of understanding the IRS’s powers and procedures.
4. He talks about how to handle profits from crypto investments, particularly those on Coinbase, advising caution in declaring where the funds originated.
5. Jay delves into the United States Code and the Code of Federal Regulations to provide a better understanding of how the law applies to crypto transactions.
6. He suggests that the IRS is primarily interested in third-party transactions involving cryptocurrency valued in dollars.
7. Jay highlights the importance of knowing the rule-making process and recommends using resources such as federal register dot gov for accurate information.
8. He talks about the IRS 6209 manual, a document that helps understand IRS procedures and standards for taxation and auditing, and how it can be used to challenge incorrect tax assessments.
9. He explains how the IRS classifies taxpayers as either employees or employers, and how this classification can impact your tax obligations.
10. Jay concludes by discussing company registration in Ohio, indicating that it doesn’t require an annual filing fee or report, and talks about getting an EIN for an LLC to open a bank account in the US.

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